Pelican you make reference to the fact that the hosp industry is worst hit.
Have you been to a restaurant on a public holiday?

Did you pay a surcharge?

If so, what do you think the surcharge is for?

Also, what other industries do you know that regularly receive tips for their efforts. Do we count these tips as wages, or do we simply choose to ignore them.

As for me being nutral, yes I do consider myself nutral to a degree. I also reward people on what they achieve. The minimum wage does not do this.

Dear Belly
Lets look at overtime and penalty rates.

If someone works 20hrs per week overtime the employer has to pay heaps extra yet the employee receives only a portion of this in their pay packet because of additional taxes.

What I would like to see is that all overtime and penalty time be paid at ordinary pay rates, including public holidays, saturdays and sundays but TAX FREE. This would ease the burden on employers and give the employee much the same in their pay packets. The extra money earned would be spent and in any event the government would get the GST.

*and many businesses chose to remove weekend penalty rates regardless of how hard their staff work.*

So Pelican, would you then agree, that if you go to a restaurant or
pub on the weekends, they would be quite justified in slugging you
with a 50% extra service charge, because its the weekend?

Well yes...I would pay the surcharge and have done so - not just in restaurants but with other services open on public holidays. I understand business is there to make money but employees have to earn a decent living.

Weekends are traditionally family time or non-work time. Penalty rates were introduced to ensure that this family time did not become just like any other day of the week. Penalty rates aided in reducing opportunities to exploit workers on the weekend just as paying more for overtime meant people were being rewarded for working above and beyond the normal expected hours. If they have to work under these conditions then there is reward.

Tips are not wages and in Australia tips are not as forthcoming as in the US where hospitality staff income is so low that they could not survive without tips.

It is interesting to note though that in those sectors where wages dropped there was no marked decrease in prices for the consumer and who knows if consumers were paying the surcharge regardless of whether the employer indeed paid their staff at the higher rates.

Rehctub I am not sure what you are saying about the minimum wage - we all agree that in general the minimum wage is TOO minimum but employers have always been able to pay above the minimum wage. WorkChoices did not change this. An employer CAN choose to pay more, it has always been so - award wages are not set in concrete.

No system is perfect that is for sure but it is about getting the balance as close as possible to fair for both parties.

People seem to forget that unions are just lobby groups in the same way that the Business Council of Australia, The National Farmers' Federation et al lobbies for the rights of their members.

rehctub you may be surprised but some time in the future we may see something like that.
It is time for the next step in IR but we should not over look how workchoices took over time rates away from those who needed them the most.
Remember a casual worker gets a loading to cover, public holidays, sick leave, annual leave, should we ask why then that cw3 casual got $550 a week less than the full time worker?
Why his/her loaded rate was so much lower than the full time worker?
Workchoices
It took the loading of over time, even if the only work he/she got that week was a Saturday and Sunday shift it was treated as unloaded overtime.
However for those who work overtime each week why not an all in higher rate of pay? for all hours worked?
It may be the future but it can not work for those who work only some over time.
Do you think any government would let us work tax free hours?
Remember for some it would see 30% of all income tax free, love it but unlikely.

Belly
I am sorry but I don't know what cw3 is but boy the full timers must be on a fortune if they are paid $550 per week over and above casual rates.

So was it work choices that was so bad or just some parts of it?

What is so wrong about 'paying peanuts for monkeys'?

Why should low skilled workers, or lazy workers for that matter get paid award wages when there are heaps of options out there for them to better themselves.

I remeber employing a handicapped fellow for cleaning duties through a special employment group. A great guy who got on well with the rest of the crew. This guy was delighted to have a job.

One problem, I was entitled to pay him 65% of the basic wage for a period of 26 weeks (they paid the difference) then if I kept him on I had to pay him full pay rates. I pleeded with them to allow him to work for me at 75% pay rates for as long as he worked for me but they refussed, so, rather than use up his 26 week allowance I terminated his employment so he may get employment in a more suitable workplace. He was devistated but the truth was he quite simply was not worth full wages. Not his fault, nor mine. At that time, around 1996, there was a minimum wage in place.

One more point. Please note that all of my employees are paid either the award rate or higher and quite frankly they would leave should I try to cut their pay. Not all of them are qualified either!