We have to get this debate on track rehctub, what value do you think I would get in lieing?
I want you to understand I am no lie teller I indeed am a trade union official.
My pride and purpose in life is to serve my members with fairness, while earning the respect of people like you, employers, if it is possible to do both.
For this boss, for hundreds of such bosses it is not possible, HE IS REFUSING TO PAY HOLIDAY PAY!
You need to understand most construction workers traded away leave loading long ago.
And that human nature rules not dreams, some bosses are products of unwed parents, rehctub some workers are too.
Mate some unions are worse.
BALANCE
workchoices had none.
It gave some very real grubs unfair advantage
Do you know some of the worst labour hire firms , miss using workers the most, are owned by ex union officials?
Ex radical extremist union officials?
I have sat at the table with the other side this last month heard a man who helped draft workchoices and who runs our biggest construction giant.
He actually proposes massive cuts in worker incomes to bring down the price of construction.
So this country can grow he says.
What worker grow poor rich grow richer?
Good workers and good bosses are not rare we should understand warfare is not always the answer bad bosses like bad workers are your problem and mine.

Belly
At no stage did I refer to you as a lier. Can't see where you got this from, I simply stated that the worker you referred to may have been mistaken.

Now let's look at the construction industry.
How do the workers justify the pay rates they commonly receive.
Brickies $800 per day
Concrete rs $400 per day
Plasterers $500 per day

Solicitor & doctors $200 per day.

The construction workers (in many cases) are grossly over paid and that is a fact.

This was hurting the unions but hey dont worry labor is now backing nsw power sell off and the latest is cutting carers payments.

Workchoices isnt the problem.

Labor was incompetent in oposition and now in power have already started taking jobs and putting people further on the bottom of the heap.

Stuart Ulrich

Dear People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming
I want more migrants in Australia but not as slaves. I want them with same conditions, same payments as Australian labors. The working conditions for migrants under the 457 visas was as modern-day slavery, "They was treated as lesser citizens.". No I do not want this kind of migration, I respect and care for migrant's rights. I said you many times that you can not understand me. I am with labors side, with victim's side. I am fair person.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Tapp, Stu, can I ask you to think about your post?
You started a thread highlighting your views, I stayed away from it.
You came to another thread before this another subject to post what can only be called a taunt.
Now why not stay with your thread? this is a different subject not truly related to your posts.
I Stu do not look to you for rational debate, share none of your ideas, if you wish I will leave the thread to avoid you or maybe you could post on the subject matter workchoices?
rehctub you speak of another part of the construction industry I work in civil construction.
Pays are what an employer pays but is that pay your own super, holidays insurance? is it contractor rates?
I did not say you called me a lie,er in fact we have debated well from different sides of the fence but I am heated about that dreadful boss!
And wanted to underline my truly held belief ,mantra in fact, honesty in IR matters lies are a weakness and my story is true.

Belly, this was my original post, Belly you may find that the worker you are referring to was not entitled to leave loading, which is the case if you leave your job without completing 12 months service. I seriously doubt there would be no holiday pay however if this is the case I would suggest they take this matter further as this gives all employers a bad name.

I don't see how this has in any way betrayed me as calling you a lier. Perhaps we leave this part alone as I appreciate and respect your feedback as it is quite a change to correspond with someone who refrains from insults as is often the case in these debates. In fact, there has been none of this throughout this debate and, considering the topic that is great. Thank you all!

Back to the topic
There are obviously some serious issues with work choices however having been involved in my industry as a manager and employer for 25 years I have come to the conclusion that there is no middle ground and that's a shame