FOXY....

I presented you with "information" which is relevant to our discussion overall.

I expected you to at least have the ethics and open mindedness to at least 'read' what is clearly one of the most pernicious pieces of writing to ever exist. It is 'that' writing, and those who espouse such ideas, which are the danger which must be faced...

It shows clear and unmistakable evidence of why your case about 'tolerance and understanding' needs to be re examined as to the 'extent' of that tolerance.

So..now, in good faith, I'll ask you to remove your head from the sand, and please read that article, and then.. you will have some respect.

At this point, all I'm seeing is a person who not 'cannot' but "will not" expose themselves to anything which is likely to upset their point of view.

Now.. you know the word for that right? "bigotry/narrow mindedness/closed mindedness" etc etc.
Limiting your information base to only that which supports your view, is decidedly narrow minded.

I generally do at least look at material offered to me criticizing my viewpoint, and..I assess it. Let me give you an example.

My claim "Islam is violent and warelike by nature" (Doctrinal/historical level)

Counter claim "ur wrong, in fact it is peaceful"

Now.. the simple and open minded approach to resolving this difference is.. shock horror.. EVIDENCE.

I refute the counter claim, by presenting 'evidence'..
The counter claimant can then dispute that refutation as a cross examiner would do, and so it goes.

But when the likes of you do not even have the honesty to persue such a legitimate course, I can only conclude that you are fearful, bigoted or have other reasons for not wishing to examine real evidence

Dear BD,

Why are you assuming that I didn't read the site that you suggested?

I simply don't care to discuss anything with you.

Cheers.

Gibo takes a rest.
I need a rest from this place.
Its a nice quiet back-water of a website is the National Forum to come to... but the mind set is so frequently high brow.
No offence, any more than you wish.
Its not a site for simple folks with no degrees or letters after their names.
I have a good christian church-going friend who always says, "keep it simple stupid".
He's right.
Conversation is best when its kept simple.
One might add landscape, and adventure, and simple stories of good men and women and happy events... but heavy philosophy and the high brow response/attack doesnt improve the two-way.
It clogs the pipes.
Our beginnings are of course with Adam and Eve in the Garden at Eden tending the greenery and talking to God and fellowshiping with Him and the animals...Genesis 2:15 (for those who like references, though not all do).
Most of you young guys are too complex. (I hate what UNI's do to our youth. The kids go in and get contaminated with all of the Charlie Darwin/survival of the fittest theory stuff and end up... well..."nobodys" connected to Gods Kingdom. Is it not so?).
Please listen to BOAZ_David. He's a good christian soul. See you next season. God bless. Dont forget what I said about the invader.
Now... to the big bright world, away from quiet backstreams. In need? Jesus is always there.

Gibo, if you are still reading I suspect that when you say keep it simple you mean something similar to saying that it's simpler to say the world if flat because that's easier to understand rather than dealing with complexities of a spherical world.

Sometimes some threads develop into deep intellectual discussion revolving around the merits or otherwise of some philosopher but this one has been simple. You have made allegations about other posters and refused to back them up with evidence (which if the allegations were true would be readily available).

Nothing high brow, it's a simple matter of honesty and integrity.
Of truth having some meaning.

The is plenty of space for those with limited education but those who refuse to allow reason to enter the discussion may find themselves uncomfortable here.

R0bert

As I am basically Gibos problem I would like to leave the thread with these thoughts.
We can never know the people we post with not truly, we can form ideas about them, ever give them an age.
Let me tell you we will be wrong as much as we are right, my ham radio hobby is like that words and voices in any form are at best an idea.
I am far Gibo from your well educated young man, but it turns out you are not the youth I thought of.
Your ideas are the ones I have avoided all my life extremist ones.
Do you know what hurts? nothing Gibo said, no rational person could look for anything worthwhile there.
David Boaz it was you, see even now I see some good in you, constant preaching is not yet rubbing me the wrong way.
I understand your fears about the extreme in Islam, but not your view they are all like that.
But I feel you should have said more about the defamations Gibo used your Gods name to print.
If I wished to be unkind I could quote from the old testament all next week, and we would see a far different God, not flicking over the pages we do not like.
The thread however bought interest and that was good, David even now , you do not like my mob, but do you think the ALP, Kevin Rudd, is a communist front?

Dear Foxy....

if you did read that site....then you can see exactly how horrifying it is, and how dangerous... and possibly how it upsets your image of Islam ?

Not discussing it with me? well thats ur choice. But a fair minded person would at least have the honesty to say "Yes.. I see why you are concerned.. this is awful..." instead...you just close up shop...

There is a name for that Foxy. Now.. having read it.. and knowing fully what Islam stands for, when unrestrained by 'Western Niceties'...you promote a new thread "Muslims in Australia" where you seek to highlight their contributions?

Why make it "Muslim" contributions ? Doesn't that imply you are in fact promoting their faith?

I'd much rather read something about 'Good Citizenship' where not the religion of the people is the issue..but the actions of individuals.

As soon as you mention the 'faith'...aah..that becomes an entirely different debate.

If I did a thread "The wonderful contribution of the Catholics to Australia"...how long do you think it would be until those abused by priests loomed large and lively and spoke about..'CHILD ABUSE BY CATHOLIC PRIESTS'

You see..good for the goose..good for the gander.

The real problem though..is that Islam differs from Catholicism. Islam permits.. approves of child abuse. Catholicism does not.

We can look at Catholic Priests who abuse children and denounce them rightly and completely on every level. Try that with a Muslim who knows their faith well.