Ginx,

I should point out that the Islamic Penal code I mentioned is that which is applied in Iran; and I should have made this entirely clear.

To be fair and honest, I do not know what the Islamic Penal codes are in other Islamic countries.

Hi Antonios

I can appreciate your position, as well meaning and kind hearted.

Unfortunately it lacks a most important ingredient. "a basis" which can be agreed to by all.

The concept of "Human Rights" is an entirely human invention, and the idea does not come from anywhere except the secular West. So, that means that 1.4billion people (Muslims) will disagree with it. They will only recognize those rights from the Western version which advance their cause, and once that cause is sufficiently strong, will reject them and impose Sharia law.

This is how the Muslim mind of Benbrika and company (Trial began today) works.

According to the Crown Prosecutor:
http://news.theage.com.au/group-aiming-for-violent-jihad-court/20080213-1rvk.html

He said that Benbrika taught the group that it was "permissible to kill women, children and the aged".

Now..in the interests of a good understanding of 'WHY' he may have taught this...lets look at the basis in the 'Islamic version of human rights'...the Hadith tradition, where... we find...THIS!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html#019.4460

Chapter 9: PERMISSIBILITY OF KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN THE NIGHT RAIDS, PROVIDED IT IS NOT DELIBERATE
Book 019, Number 4321:

It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

COMMENT. Now..the hadith preceeding this, claims that MOhammad dissaproved of killing women and children, but the one above clearly approves it. I guess BenBrika took the view of this one.

You see.. THAT is "Islamic Human Rights"... so.. your seeking to build 'understanding' between faiths,is entirely futile when it comes to Islam.
Hindu's...Buddhists... Zoroastrians.. Bahais.. Christians all can mutually understand and leave each to their own. So, it will work among them.
True Muslims...cannot and will not.

David do not be a blind,
they will change as we change, we was very different. Christians was same as Muslims, do you remember Galileo? Only a god knows how many innocent lost their life from paranoid Christians priests. If the Muslims stone their victims, the Christians put on fire their victims, few centuries before. The sharia law is only in few countries. Bush's policy helped the hardliners and blocked the improvement in Muslim Countries, but be sure there are big changes in their society.
David USE YOUR BRAIN, THE MUSLIMS FROM WEST COUNTRIES WILL CHANGE THE MUSLIMS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES. SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH (INCLUDING ME ) AND SUPPORT THE MUSLIMS IN WEST COUNTRIES. What do you think the Muslim women like to be as slaves? Do you think the Muslim women like to cover their face and their body? Do you think only west women need sex? Our Muslim is the best persons to bring the changes in Muslim world. STOP TO PRESS THEM. THEY ARE OUR BEST ALLIANCE. Do not push them to the hard core of the Muslims. We have the brain to use it. Think what I say to you. I am not your enemy but a friend, more experienced from you and I want good results not empty words.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Hi Antonios...

mate.. 2 points from your last post please...

1/ "They (Muslims) will change, Christians were the same, remember Galileo"

That understanding of yours is most important for me to address,
and try to bring better understanding why 'some' Muslims might change but "Islam" will not.
If you do nothing else in your life.. please do 'this' Study the foundations of Christianity ..directly from the Bible (Gospels is a good start...then Acts and Pauls letters) and see.. just see, if you can find anything to support the historic cruelty perpetrated by those calling themselves 'The Church'.

Then..do the same for Islam, most of all.. look at the differences between Mohammad, and the Lord Jesus.
-Did Jesus ever assasinate people who mocked him ?
-Did Jesus ever massacre a whole tribe who had surrendered?
-Did Jesus have sex with a 9 yr old girl and take around 11 wives?
-Did Jesus call on his people to take up arms and invade other countries and fight for Christianity?

Of course the answer to each of those questions is... "no"
and in Mohammad's case..it is 'yes'....

Mate.. please 'get' this.. THAT is why "Islam" doesn't change. If you need help in seeing this, I'll come and dicuss it in person.
But you can find all the information at:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/index.html

I can offer more perspectives than they on the issue of "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" (9:30) which is a declaration of eternal war with non Muslims.

You are not recognizing the true nature of Islam..how it works. You are projecting a 'secular western' understanding on it. Square peg/Round hole mate.

2/
Your belief that criticizing them will drive them to the radicals.. is flawed. The reality is "Given the power, the moderates will BECOME radical".. if you don't believe me just look at the reaction in the Muslim world over the Danish Cartoons.

David
I write often to you because I think you are not a bad person. OK? I respect your rights and I want to see you supporting Muslims and Asians. You can.

Individual says,

"Ditch,
I have no intention to be disrespectful to the victims. It simply is not my nature & for you to say so is showing that you are the one with tunnel vision regarding to live amongst different cultured people. I expected for someone to burr up when being critical about Australians after all it's their nature to criticise everyone else but unable to cope with it when put in front of a mirror.
All I drew attention to was that many Australians have a reputation for being noisy, disrespectful & a pain generally. If you take note of the news you will find almost daily reference to that. So, when you have years & years of crap from morons looking for a cheap thrill at the expense of poor people you're bound to cop serious consequences. You may be a perfectly good person but many of your compatriots are a disgrace. What's wrong with buying cheap clothing that's made by child labour? THINK !
Posted by individual, Saturday, 9 February 2008 8:59:59 PM"

It pays to practice what you preach Individual and you obviously haven't. THINK! There is no reason to assume child slave labour because of low prices. Wages across the board and therefore the costs of production are lower in many parts of Asia. Slave labour is not a given simply because prices are lower. It's naive to make such an assumption.

So Australians have a reputation for being a pain and noisy etc do they? Just like Americans, British and Germans for example. Is this what you read in the papers is it? I bet you see it on commercial TV "current affairs" programs too. I would suggest reading wider than you currently do. You'll find you get a broader, better balanced knowledge of the world than you have at the moment.

And don't forget to THINK! You know what that is don't you Individual?