Palimpsest, you are confirming Shakespeare's dictum about the ages of man... start off as a mewling babe, go through adolescence, youth, middle age, senior cit. then revert to infantility...
All things bright and beautiful to you...

Happy New Year to You ALL from a happy QLD lady.

I have read many of the posts as I now relax after working 7 days through Christmas as a nurse to our Aged. What satisfaction there
is in that. No matter I am happy and know I make a difference for others.

I have been highly entertained here with the posts. Too many posts to read so I have jumped to the end with my five cents worth :)

What I want to impress is no matter what your belief systems, you must treat others as you'd have them treat you. That is not religion.
That is human respect and kindness.

And no matter what, you seek out your goals and happiness for yourself and do not expect someone or something else to get you that happiness. Accountability people. I have learned from 2007.

I have learned that you derive more happiness in the giving you do.
You derive fulfillment in the little things said and done that can
make a difference in anothers life.

Two years ago I became an active member in a community organisation that acts for the betterment of others less fortunate. Yes, churches do it and the non-churchy do it BUT I do it just because. Just because it feels right and it feels good. You meet others like minded; I have improved my life.

Do anything you do for others out of love, not a false obligation.

The recipients know who truly care. People know; they know who are respectful. So do what you do out of a love for humanity, that your life may have meaning merely because you do genuinely care. No matter how big or small that contribution it is significant.

Go out there and give of yourself. My challenge to you 'Do you make a difference in the lives of others'? Do you do it with an attitude of true caring. Go give of yourself today. Has anyone ever said it felt bad.

Happy 2008 everyone. If it is to be, it is up to me.

Cakers, has summed up the message of Christ perfectly. "Do anything you do for others out of love, not a false obligation....Go out there and give of yourself."

This is the true message of Christmas, the purity of God became incarnate in Christ Jesus to make a difference in the lives of the poor, sick and oppresed. As this is also the primary principle that all the major religions of today uphold. Living this is true and pure religion. Religion that makes God incarnate is not ritual and recitation of creeds. It is being real with love and purity of motive.

Everyone have a great 2008, as you live in genuine purity and sincere love.

Hi David... my experience was an adult age conversion. I accepted Christ as Savior in my mid 20s. It was after a period of serious contemplation and a growing inner urgency which seems to be not of myself.
I had a couple of milestones along the way. Some positive and others negative.
The most negative I guess was that my Sunday School teacher came along one day smoking... quite a shock to me in the little Methodist Church in Edithvale. He was also my neighbour separated by one vacant block. It turned out he had beat the stuffing out of his wife one time too many and she left. I gained little from that which would draw me to God, but nevertheless, even at 14ish I knew the difference between what I was reading in the Gospels and how he was behaving.

I guess I also 'lived' the dilemna of a 60s song "If that's all there is... then bring out the boooze and lets party on" something like that.... the 60s were a time of abandonment of values, and while some people just changed course and went in any old direction which suited them, I went the other way, toward the Author and Finisher of our faith.
A pivotal moment was reading a little New Testament in a C130 on the way to Vietnam, sitting in a Combivan we were transporting while the others played Yuka. I guess that kind of framework.. war.. international travel, exposure to many levels of life all helped me see the profound nature of the Scriptures.

"if a blind man leads a blind man, won't they both fall into a pit" said Jesus :) aaaaaameN to that.

I noted that sin did not dissappear with the social status of the person, it just became more sophisticated. I concluded that there is nothing in mankind to look to, or rely on, so..my quest led me more firmly to the Lord Jesus as Savior, guide, friend.

I honestly cannot see why you dismiss the scriptures... I've studied the traditions and find them very sound.
cheers

Well the last statement of David Boaz's post sums up the dilemma facing us all.

DB : I honestly cannot see why you dismiss the scriptures... I've studied the traditions and find them very sound.

Well so too have I David and I come to a very different conclusion. Most Atheists whom I have met also know scripture quite well ...

I believe in many people the black book is limiting on a person's journey... It locks them into a position of "thinking they know or believing". Of course atheism can do the same "locking in" which again is worrisome.

I thought Cakers summation of things was very reasonable - It is the intent and motive that matters not the belief system. It is the personal act of assisting someone with no hidden agenda whatsoever.

Can the churches really say that they do this? Can an atheist?

I repeat my favourite quote from The Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven"

If Jesus exists and whether he be God or a separate entity the son of God or even just a very unique human.. Christians just don't seem to know what he meant by this statement. Was he including athiests?

I think everyone should be free to go on their own spiritual or non-spiritual journey remembering that sometimes "thinking we know" is exactly the time when "we don't really know".

One thing that is for certain here... Our ability to discuss this openly with minimal name calling shows our true colours and reflects on our society as a whole.

No matter who said it first "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" in my mind at least would solve most if not all of the world's problems.

BOAZ_David,

A very interesting story, but you did not answer the other questions I posed. Actually, there is no need to as they have self-evident answers. I am sure you recognise this point.

What you see in the Christian scriptures, is seen by others in the Torah (Jewish), the Poetic Edda (Norse), the Pali Canon (Buddhist), the Vedas (Hindu), the Koran (Islam), The Aradia Gospel of the Witches (Wicca), the Tao Te Ching (Chinese), The Kitáb-i-Aqdas (Persian), The Book of Mormon (Latter Day Saints), The I Jing (Ancient China).

Cultures capable of recording in written form all have various sacred scriptures. They are not compatible.

You stated: “I honestly cannot see why you dismiss the scriptures...”

I think it appropriate to quote -Stephen Roberts here: "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

The Christian Scriptures are not inerrant as claimed. They have a multitude of inconsistencies. They say nothing about science; in fact, the alleged Jesus did not refute the Eve & Adam story or the Exodus fable. Scientific fact does not accept these stories. The alleged Jesus believed in demons and caste them out of humans, killing 2,000 pigs in the process. Apparently, the alleged Jesus also did not believe in animal welfare. (The Gadarene swine Matthew 8: 28 – 33 also in Mark and Luke)

There are many parts of Christian scriptures demonstrating they were written by people and not by (Or not inspired by) an all knowing god.

But David, the main themes of this thread are: It is ethically unsound to use indoctrination methods on children and impose unrepresentative beliefs on politics. If people could keep there religious beliefs as a private matter between consenting adults, the nightly news would take on a totally different hue.

Let’s hope that message predominates for the sake of the planet and the life on it.

Welcome all, to the New Year.

David