...Continued

2) Constantly worrying about what might happen to me in the after life when I inevitably stopped attending church (since it bored me to tears as a child). I believe this added to the anxiety problems that I suffered for many years after.

My recovery from the brainwashing took years. Even to this day, words such as “atheist”, “secular” and “evolution” still sound very ugly to me.

These psychological crimes are far worse than homosexuality, euthanasia or any other of the narrow set of morals Christians bleat on about.

<<So while teaching about Christ CAN be done in an irresponsible way, it does not have to be so.>>

How do you responsibly teach your child that they face eternal hell if they reject the beliefs that they (by pure chance mind you) were born into?

Until the existence of God can be conclusively proven, it is not worth running the risk of psychological abuse.

<<Just like our leftoid Professors who will not entertain any other line than the socialist one at our Uni's (=abuse?)>>

This is an absurd comparison

Firstly, academics don't raise their students from an early and vulnerable age; and secondly, academics don't tell their students that they face damnation if they don't think as they do.

But while we're on the topic of educational institutes, I know of several Christian (Pentecostal) schools that eagerly preach to the children that premarital sex is an unforgivable sin. They use a cliff analogy, saying that once you've fallen off a cliff, you can't get back up; meaning that because you can't gain back your virginity, you can't be forgiven.

But the pastors at these schools would tell the adolescents that if they ever did lose their virginity, they could turn to them to talk about it. Hmmm... Now if you can't be forgiven, then why would you bother telling an obviously perverted pastor about it?

BOAZ-David,

I think your should realise that the inability to answer direct questions means they cannot be answered without threatening ones position. Continually posting irrelevancies does not add anything positive to the discussion. Maybe you should stop for a while.

A J Philips has explained very well indeed some of the consequences of indoctrination, which the Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc is confronted with, on a regular basis.

A very sad part of religious indoctrination, especially nowadays where children eventually may acquire more knowledge than that of their parents, is the bad feelings children can have towards their parents. Some adolescents react very badly when they realise there is no evidence for stories they are supposed to believe on the threat of eternal damnation. They not only can end up rejecting the stories, but it may diminish the love they have for their parents, or it can be lost altogether. Psychological pain can do that and all parents should be aware that that is one of the consequences of religious indoctrination.

Richard Dawkins’ book, The God Delusion, the AFA and others do not use the term child abuse in this regard, lightly.

The AFA advises adults (And adolescents) in the position of conflict with their parents over religious matters, to take the lead in not surrendering their Atheistic stance and to show this by example and not in endless argument with them. It is the duty of those with greater understanding to accommodate the feelings of people with less.

The important point to remember here is that those doing the indoctrinating are victims of the same process. Blaming victims is counterproductive and stupid

David

Congratulations AJ Philips on your excellently argued and very personal post. It is a brilliant summation of the problems that the religions can have on people's lives.

Religious teachings always have "Hellfire and Damnation" hanging over the believers head. It is "a threat for eternal damnation" and carries with it the bribe "repent & follow me and you will be saved" OR the return threat "suffer the consequences".

My 17 year old son was recently approached by a so called Christian who told him "you are a murderer at heart because you have not repented and asked Jesus to enter your life". Lucky I wasn't there the so called "Christian" would have felt the wrath of me on his person.

This is simple psychological bribery.

How does a child reconcile this with a loving God? ... God's love is obviously conditional - Would anyone say to their own kids "Do it my way or rot in hell for eternity"?

It also leads to "People judging others" and yet the Bible says do not judge others...

It has led some people to perpetual guilt. How many have suicided over the years because of this terrible false guilt?

Poor old Judas "the alleged facilitator" of the prophecy allegedly hanged himself due to this overpowering guilt - but what did he feel guilty for?... One of the disciples had to betray Jesus ... so it wasn't Judas' free thought but what was needed for alleged prophecy to come true.

Greater things than Judas could understand were taking place and yet he is villified by Christians as the traitor. Why? They are judging poor old Judas.

Didn't so called Christian teachings have Mary Magdalene as a prostitute up until the 1960's? Wow do not bear false witness!

And we haven't gotten to the direct quotes from the Bible that justify slavery etc. like Exodus 21 1-12 ...

The Old Testament is a biased history of 12 tribes who got together for protection probably due to a shared ancestry or shared language and then justified their acts by saying God ordered it.

Most of the atheists I know personaly use their atheism to live without conscience and fear of guilt of violating social boundaries, with no respect for others, and an excuse to be unnacountable to society. Their belief is: "There is no reason for life other than have a great time".

Though one local atheist, a Pastor friend related to me, is a Medical Doctor that became involved in his nearby Church because he could see the benifits of social programmes the Church were doing for the community. He was obviously not a bigoted atheist and put his support where he could see social benifits.

The whole gamut of argument put foward here relate to historical events. One can believe it of not? None of that will damage a child, but what will damage a child is poor example of character, attitude, and actions that show no love and respect for others.

Those that are agnostic from childhood ignorance and family background seem to have less personal agenda to be rebellious and negative in their approach to people of faith than the hardcore atheistic rebelling against their families values

"Most of the atheists I know personaly use their atheism to live without conscience"

Then you know a very unusual selection of atheists, Philo. My experience is virtually the opposite - many theists I know of use their theism to live without conscience.

I do agree with you that most atheists live without "fear of guilt of violating social boundaries". Probably most atheists would agree that fear and guilt are entirely the wrong reasons to act morally and ethically.

What, Philo, no comment on the debunking of your volcano theory? No rebuttal on the tale of the gadarene swine? Shame, I was looking forward to reading your responses.

Never mind.

>>Most of the atheists I know personaly use their atheism to live without conscience and fear of guilt of violating social boundaries, with no respect for others, and an excuse to be unnacountable to society.<<

You need to get out more, obviously.

None of the atheists I know is without morals, standards and ethics. In fact, some of them spend more time considering them than many religious people I know. What they do not have is a single set of "instructions" from an outside source - they have each worked out for themselves where they stand on the key issues.

>>Those that are agnostic from childhood ignorance and family background seem to have less personal agenda to be rebellious and negative in their approach to people of faith than the hardcore atheistic rebelling against their families values<<

Now admit it, that little sentence came straight out of your imagination, didn't it? There's not a shred of substance to it, bar your own worldview, plus a bit of wishful thinking thrown in for good measure.

When you start to invent arguments, Philo, it is definitely time to fold your tent and slink away.

Bon voyage.