eftfnc,
I see you believe in supernatural forces. "May any healthy internal force stay with you all during future trying times".

Could you please explain if you have had experiences with such, or is it - watching too much science fiction movies?

At the very core of Christian values is exclusionism. Christ teaches that though the Sameritans are better people it is his own cronies which will saved by his god. The Bible guarantees that Jesus taught communism and according to the character of Jesus it is his own community that will subsist at the expense of the people of the world.
When the cult of the Bible was glued together by the Council of Nicea , propaganda elements such as peace and goodwill thrown in in order to seduce the die hard humanist elements of the City of Rome and of course Christianity had been intertwined with crime in the empire that it needed a change in PR.

It was not that long ago that "Christmas" was stolen from the various beliefs of Europe and Central Asia, indeed some sects of the Christ Cult still do not acknowledge this ancient solstice festival."Christmas" itself has been persecuted by Christians who could not bring it to extinction.

As a stolen festival the cult of Christ must assert its domination of our hereditary tradition in order for it to maintain the pretence that Christianities superstitions are not merely only arbitary inventions.

As for the arrogance of churches as they pretend to be victorious in their lust to control the population and bring the free people under their dominion, let them indulge.

For me Christmas is symbolic of my ancestors,Animists, Pagans , Celts, Norse, Druid, Cossack,Goths,Vandals, Mongol and Tuetonic who are victorious over Constantine and his Military cult. For despite Christianity we still celebrate the solstice despite centuries of persecution and the last laugh is on Jesus because Christians are helping keep the festival alive.

And good on the free companies who keep up the spirit of Saturnalia by throwing an xmas party for their employees.

Merry Xmas to everybody.

A nice summation, West.
Well, I've read all the posts and there’s a definite trend.
1. Christians defend their faith – sometimes rudely – and are not interested in the harm done to fellow Australian citizens by the intrusion of religion into politics; ignoring the examples that have been soberly and clearly mentioned by David.
2. Atheists, on the other hand, are all concerned for the welfare of others, and deplore the discriminatory intrusions of religion into lawmaking.
3. Religionists can see nothing strange in proposing, without any evidence, that there is a superman in the sky, while demanding that those who don’t believe in such a creature, prove it doesn’t exist.
The only conclusion to draw is that religious indoctrination of children permanently damages the rational abilities of humans. While this doesn’t matter too much with most people, it is dangerous and alarming when such irrational people are elevated to positions of responsibility. Do we really want decisions that will affect life on earth to be made by someone who believes an omnipotent, omniscient, supernatural creature that is aware of the hopes, fears, thoughts and actions of seven billion humans, while keeping the universe on track – actually cares for each and every one of us and is arranging things according to a grand plan?
The rational mind boggles. No wonder we’re in such a mess!

David, your suggestion that I can't see my indoctrination because of the pernicious character of said indoc. doesn't bear out.

I had a '60's public school level of religious indoc. and will admit to a moment of enthrallment when 4yo as i sang All Things Bright and Beautiful.

In my teens I reacted against the idea of religion, and as stated on this thread already, later still rejected Christian theology and dogma on more considered grounds. And I can understand people whos experience has turned them against Churches.

My later interest in things spiritual, and conversion to the possibilities of spirituality hardly align with any experiences in my upbringing. Rather this is the result of my amateur study and reading in this subject, and my measuring of ideas against my observations and experiences.

More later, NYE beckons

Happy New Year to you One and All!

As David so kindly said to me, "Whatever gets you through the night..."

Be Kind to Each Other!

Happy New Year everyone...

May you all have an Out of Body Experience OR a Near Death Experience (and survive) to throw all of your theories back into the Chaotic Universe.

Then we can get down to some real discussion! Ha!