Oliver,

Your last post first. That is no news concerning logical fallacies. The question is; who is using them and who is only stating they are being used?

Have you ever considered that you are pushing the wrong end of the horse? It would appear so with the full page advertisement suggestion. No doubt, it would bolster the already existing thoughts of the infidel, but not the prejudices of those with ‘conviction’.

Superstition evolving into religion has been with humans possibly since recognition that death is inevitable. We have evolved with religion and more than most likely there is an inherent component involved. That does not mean the inherent part cannot be rationally evaluated, as we have done with other harmful propensities, but until we recognise this side to our nature, it will be difficult to alter in the majority. A minority has succeeded and this is a positive sign of hope.

You say my methods have been tried for 150 years unsuccessfully. May I remind you of the hundreds of thousands of year preceding this where religious belief has permeated every part of life? It is remarkable that the advancement of Atheism is so rapid when all of history is taken into account. Atheism, so far, is a rocket in time.

The question is: Will humanity as a whole be able to overcome its evolutionary past, or will it peak at an insufficient number to affect remedial change to social life and politics.

The outcome of broad based education and scientific understanding indicates the Atheist rocket will continue ad infinitum. The negative side is will it be too late because of super weapons in the control of zealotry or will other factors, (energy/environmental degradation) precipitate a widespread fall in living standards and conditions and lead us back to the Dark Ages?

Religion is an emotional response to inputs from nature and nurture and I posit, the only way it will ever become a lesser force in civilisations, is to break the indoctrination cycle. The evidence overwhelmingly supports this. Therefore, my energies will remain directed at that goal.

David

Oliver,
I have not read all the recent posts as yet. So I thank you for your previous wishes. Hope all goes well with whatever occupies you these next few weeks.

As for the topic "trinity" you would know I am not a trinitarian. I believe strongly in the unity of the person of God. The Holy Spirit is not another person in a Godhead but is the revelation of God in the created character of the universe, human history and the pure aspirational endeavours of humanity.

For me there is one unified mind that has developed all space, matter time, and life. Man because of self is the only mind that operates in rebellion to the design principles. Because we were created with the same independent thought and creativity as God we can willfully violate his design.

Throughout human history the corporate character evident in a nation represents their actual image of their god. Similarly an individuals idealism of character represents their view of their God, unless they are dissatisfied with their view of life. God for the individual is the image of the ideal of one's personal aspirations of character, actions, motivations and wisdom.

Similarly in Ancient Rome the Emperor was considered god because he represented the idealism of administrative power. If democracy could identify a god then Kevin Rudd in the Roman concept would be god. Unfortunately he for most has unfortunate human frailties, though many worship him as the new Messiah.

If evolution could propel humanity toward being gods then thoses who worship the idealism of human character are most likley to be at the forefront of any new evolutionary development in humans. For the Christian the character of Jesus Christ represents the very nature of God.

Oliver,

I had a quick read of the thread; ‘The rationality of faith’ and even though the question you have posed about the origin of the idea of the Trinity, was pertinent, the response was as expected.

Thanks for the invite, but I really haven’t the time at the moment to delve into the ‘rational’ subjectivity of the religious mind. ;)

Even defending my own compositions adds to the existing workload, but with that, I am more or less duty-bound to do so. Soon I will disengage from the OLO forum and return when posting afresh sometime in the future.

Have a good trip. I hope the state of your health is improving.

David

David,

Thanks.

Progress towards reformation is slow, yet, "the journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step [Mao]".

Take care, I will away from OLO, most like for a few months.

Philo and Sells,

Greetings and farewell for a while.

O.

The day after my last post in this thread Heath Ledger died. Heath Ledger played the Joker in Batman and I had told Philo about the apparition of batman on my car. From what appears to be an infinite number of relationships of 'subject' meaning can be inferred. Of course this is what the media does. Every man and his dog is suddenly connected to Heath Ledger, more people claim to have intended to travel on trains that derail than the number of people trains normally carry. The image of Batman was thus a miracle , a message , a warning , a direction, Adam West is afterall American and Heath Ledger died in America. A pentecostal friend tells me Heaths passing is a sign that the Rapture is coming and she has her bags packed, she does , she has strong faith. She has been waiting for that train since Diana Spencer Died and if she was older no doubt she would have waited for the second coming since Elvis gave up the ghost.
Batman has taught me a lesson , there is nothing in superstition. Religion begins by jumping to irrational conclusions. As a reader of History Oliver you would have found that throughout time people were present to point out that religion is rubbish. The Romans, Christians, Greeks and Muslims and Jews always responded by exterminating atheists. In the end every god will have to face the truth and the truth will hurt.

Philo, West & David;

Thanks. Early flight tomorrow.

O.