In the last three days the Media and Sheikh Haron have had a little crash together lol. The Daily Telegraph on 5 December reports that Sheikh Haron has said to the family of Australian soldier Luke Worsley: Your son died for nothing! Also "The Australian" newspaper's article writes: "A MYSTERIOUS Muslim cleric has written to the grieving family of slain Australian soldier Luke Worsley saying their son "died for nothing" while carrying out an "evil" act.
Sheikh Haron also has accused the Media and claimed that "Media's Mafia" has had a plan and conspiracy against him by publishing only some parts of his letter.
Guys! what's your opinion about all this? Who is right? Who is wrong?

Daily Telegraph:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22874148-1702,00.html
The Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22878054-31477,00.html
Sheikh Haron's website:
http://www.sheikhharon.com/announcements.html

Dear ALJAZEERA OZ,

Sheikh "Haron" is a fraud. He has no surname, no telephone number, no address, and nobody in the Muslim community knows him. He has designed everything so that he is an opaque identity.

The responses that the "Sheikh" has allegedly received from public figures (from letters he has sent), are not on letterheads, nor have any of them been signed, nor indeed is there room in the letter template for a signature. They are clearly forgeries generated by the author of the site.

The "Sheikh" has perpetrated a fraud and cast a cloud over the Muslim community. He has intruded into the private grief of parents who lost a son and has embarrassed editors of the New Limited website.

Dear Foxy
If all are forgeries generated by the author of the site, that means the image of the letter of Philip Ruddock, NSW government, Victoria police and Ministry for police new south wales are not real.
How has he made such a false copy? I think few years jail will be the punishment for such a crime. If all are not real why Federal Police doesn't arrst him?
Its hard to believe that the image of those four letters are fake. Have you seen those scanned letters? Three of them are on page "Media Release" and one of them is on page "Announcements".
If those letters are real, that means he has signed his letter and he has had a letterhead or a postal address and phone number, otherwise Philip Ruddock or NSW premier or Ministry for Police wouldn't reply to his letter.
Is it right?

Did you see any 'letterheads' on any of those letters or any signatures?

Look up - 'The fake Sheikh "Haron" ' on the internet and you will come across the 'austrolabe.com' website. Read it for yourself and make up your own mind. But, the guy's a fraud.

Some idiot who does not like Muslims has invented another idiot not unlike a past fool who in fact was a Muslim cleric.
The reason was to further breed hate on both sides, nothing gets an Aussie more heated than mocking a dead soldier.
But it is fantasy.
That paper once had some credibility but is little more than a comic book now.
Had the idiot been real he/she/it should be exported in a barbed wire boat.
But we must remember in this debate lies are a weapon.

Hi Foxy
Yeah as I told you I've seen letterheads and signatures:

Letterhead of Prime Minister John Howard
Letterhead of ASIO (Security Intelligence Organisation)
Letterhead of Philip Ruddock
Letter head of NSW government
Letterhead of Ministry for Police
Letterhead of Victoria Police

And all have signature, if these letterheads are not real this guy maybe get 20 years sentence.
And if the letterheads are real, those people who say "Sheikh Haron" is fake are stupid.
Any idea?

Ozzie
Its pale. We are posting on a members tag because our site is down.
Where have you been little buddy.?

Now as for your question I dont think its nice of anybody to write a parent who have lost a son something like that no matter which side they are on.
There are just some things you dont do.

Now May I ask you a question please?
I want your thoughts on this drama in Campsie over the youth center.
I hope you are aware of the Situation.
We watched the other night on TV the Head Muslim [ who seemed very young] going off about his center being regected by the local council.
I noted the others involved were two female Muslim Lawyers.

Tell us honestlty do you see this problem as racist- or just that the council has one rule for all.

Apparently they set up in a resdidential area.

How do you think the council should handle this problem and why?

Do you think the young Muslim Gentleman who is understandable upset should just accept the councils descion or do you think as he does its racist.

By The Way Ruddock closed the AWB Enquiry along with Downer Vaile Howard etc.

The Cole Enquiry have said they can not finish their investigations into the AB because of lack of funding?

Given Mr Ruddock Vaile Downers office all claim they have no idea who is incharge of the funding do you agree that our new PM Kevin Rudd should allow Mr Cole to complete his enquiry and posibly lay charges again some tall poppies?

Dont you agree it would be very much in all muslim People interests along with the reast of Aussies to get to the bottom of why Ruddock Downer Vaile Howard closed cut and run on the AWN Enquiry.
Would you help us as fellow Australians to get to the truth behind why it was closed?
Pale Halal Kind Meats

AlliOz,
You can pass this on to your buddies in terror that would write such filth to a grieving soldiers loved ones.

I hope Worso sent plenty of your kind to hell, wrapped up in pigskin and lets face it there aint 72 boys and virgins where thier going.

Wish I was still in green, getting my chance to send a few to meet allah as well!

On another note, what are guys going to do with all those boys?

Sounds a bit fruity to me, but hey each to thier own hey matey.

Anyway thanks for another troll, personally I think your a figment of somones imagination

PALE, I wonder if those pigs heads that were left at Camden were Halal? I hope not, just seems quite fitting dont you think.

Scotty
How have you been mate. Well Scotty dont start me on the pig heads. I heard it on the news and the way in which they reported it made my blood boil.
Nobody even seemed to care to enquire WHERE the pigs heads came from!
Apart from that I guess you know pork or pig to Muslims is Haram- or forbidden as they see pigs as unclean.
That really is a bit confusing if you use common sense because amoung all Animals pigs are the most intellergent and clean'
I dont know Scotty where this will all end.
I mean I dont want to offend Ozzie or any other Muslim but lets look at a few facts.
AS you know I am an Animal Lover. Ok so is 90% pluss of the Australian public.
In fact 64% of Aussies have a pet and the biggest majority is a dog which becomes one of the family members.
So without being nasty - here we go again.
Muslims do not like dogs either- Well Most.
So how on earth are we ever doing to get along. It just isnt ever going to work in my mind unless Muslims really really and truely want to change.
From what I see most dont..
Now I hope I havent annoyed you Oz because I would like a reply to the above two questions= please.
Oh and I am fighting with Ikabel. You guys really need to get a more dinky di President.
Dinky Do Oz means- Honest up front- not sneaky.

SCOTTY did you read the thread? the whole thread before unleashing your rant?
Are you sure the author is not pulling your leg? do you think he/she is Muslim? not maybe an Aussie?
And the thread, are you boxing shadows? has the debate by passed you? is it a chance the evil Muslim cleric never existed?
That he/he/it may be just as much a Mossi hater as you?
Pigs heads? SCOTTY just maybe those heads got put there by some Muslims!
Yes it is a chance years ago an Aboriginal artist put cartoons calling for blacks to be hung all around a town, then branded that town racist, he was unmasked.
This country's troops serving and dieing for us in Afghanistan would not speak in the terms you do here see that is why our troops are the best.
They are not driven by blind hate!
Now that council, just maybe they are acting for the community just maybe if it was a church they would think no differently .
And just maybe they share the idea so many concerned Australians do like it or not not in my back yard is alive and well.
Like it or not most of us are concerned about Muslim separatism in our country.

I will have to second a number of posters re Sheikh Haron.

First, there are no references on his website. I don't believe that 'fear for his safety' story as Australia is the safest and most welcoming country to Muslims.

Second, no one in the muslim community knows or heard of him. In addition, to claim to be a sheikh and try to issue fatwas, its an Islamic must to declare your education and credentials. No room for anonymous sheikh.

And lastly look at the title "The fight between the media and.."

Thats exactly it: Sheikh Tag left a big space in the media and the fictitious Sheikh Harry Potter/ Haron sounds like a good replacement.

Peace

If you will pardon me for being a bit off thread;
The objection to pork was well founded back in history.
They were unable to get rid of the parasites, so it was decided, long
before moslems appeared on the scene to not allow the eating of pig meat.

However about 2000 to 3000 years ago the Chinese worked out to raise
pigs without the parasite problem.
Trouble is those that live in the middle east are a bit slow on the
uptake and never woke up to the proper animal husbandry practices.

Baz,
Thanks- Good to have someone come on here with knowledge.

Thought these might interest you.

Yep but they havent run out of ideas why it haram.
Talk about telling porkies.

I think for memory AFICS web site reads its all in 'the ears.'

Just goes to show you cant make a silk purse ut of a sours ear.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&cr=countryAU&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=pig+pork+haram+unclean+forbidden+muslims+why&spell=1

Where are you Ozzie.
Will I tell them all the truth about working with Muslim Leaders in AFIC so far after five years? Ah Ozzie. What do you reckon?
No you would know of course.
Well let me tell you all how it REALLY Is working with Muslim heads of Australia because as far as I know we are the only members of the public that held a MOU with them.

There have been many experiences - some good - some not so good.
Funny times friendships frustration patience trust anger etc.

But if I had to pick out just one experience I would have to say lies and back stabbing. Totally untrustworthy.

They look you in the eyes and tell lies that flow out of their mouths.
' They are polite and friendly. Basically they have NO RESPECT for us its as simply as that.
They are of the belief that their God is better- their ways and their culture.
Unlike the greeks and the wogs this lot in gerneral will NEVER except our way of life withut trying to change us.

Now they are pushing to turn Australia into a ritutual slaighter country through federal Government.

If you know anything about Muslims you will know its fanitical and controls their food as well as dress.

Not to pre stunn an animal is barbaric and cruel.

If you dont give a stuff about animals then - think about Allah taking over Australian meat supplies because ladies and gentleman - Thats just what the Muslim Leaders AFIC have asked for and it looks like they are getting it
Wake up Aussies!

ps How did I go Ozzie?

Hey PALE (TarynW) how are you my dear friend? Long time no see :)
I didn't get it, you asked for help. How can I help? I wish I could.

Regarding the fake Sheikh Haron, I think the guy will be in jail at least for 20 years because of the fake letterheads of Australian government on the site. Or as I said before, if the letterheads are not fake, people who believe Sheikh Haron is fake are stupid.

All these people can't be stupid, they are smart and educated. So it might be the other option: Sheikh Haron doesn't exist!

I hope he doesn't exist. If he exists, all these people who say Sheikh Haron is fake look stupid for the public and it's not good for Australi's reputation.

No I don't think so. Australians are NOT stupid. They know something for sure. Australians don't say anything with no evidence and proof. They have a nice culture and they don't lie, they don't accuse people. So Sheikh Haron might be fake, because Australians can't be stupid. No WAY.

Dear AL JAZEERA OZ,

If you look up Sheikh Haron on the 'Austrolabe,' website it will tell you that: "The Sheikh would be more convincing (as a Muslim) if he could spell his own name correctly. 'Haron' comes from someone not conversant with Muslim names - 'Harun' or 'Haroon.' The Arabic equivalent of the Hebrew 'Aaron.'..."

Also if you visit his webpage - it becomes clear he is fraudulent.
He does not begin with, "In the name of Allah, the most beneficient, the most merciful.." it would be impossible for a religious scholar to fail to do so.

The Fatwa section is the real giveaway. "A religious scholar gives a fatwa, or religious opinion, the same way a QC gives a legal opinion: in a highly ordered and codified manner, quoting verses from the Qur'an and Hadith, and offering religious consensus before finally coming to the scholar's own opinion. The Sheikh, however is not conversant with Islam and therefore can't do so, and so merely has written a short response from an opinion he believes reflects Islamic doctrine."

It doesn't. Proving him to be a fraud.

Hi Foxy
I know what you mean.

I want to add a reason. I think the main reason that this Sheikh doesn't exist is this reason:

It is impossiple that Australian Media and Aussie people to be stupid. When Media. Austrolable and Aussie people including the members of this forum say: Sheikh Haron is fake, we must accept it. Because it is impossible to say that all these people are stupid.

Foxy do you like my reason?

but I am scared, what if 10%, no 5%, no what if even 1% in the future we find that he is not fake. In that case we all look stupid, and I don't want such a thing happens. The home page of the website has a notice for Biography of Sheikh, have you read it?

Belly,
Maybe you should re-read my post. The part where I say that I believe this Sheik from Scrubby creek is part of somones imagination.

Al-Oz and I have history, he threatened me on this forum.

He has learned after being banned to be more moderate in his approach.

I was just saying hi to him.

Ali-Oz said :You asked me why I have named myself ALJAZEERA
When I was joining this site I was thinking to choose a nick name which show two important facts: 1. being Muslim 2. being Australian citizen.

And as for what soldiers talk about.... Well, you just wouldnt understand mate you just wouldnt. But pretty much the same stuff they talked about in every war. Think, rag, camel, goat, sand, virgin, allah, boy, crispy

So I would not know SCOTTY? are you sure?
I find your posts heated always and very much one sided sorry but that is how your every word presents you.
Now AL what ever are you fair dinkum? do you agree this fraud does not exist? or are you saying he is true?
Such rubbish as this fraud writes can indeed be well crafted racist rubbish, just consider a fraud not unlike this one used in the last election campaign.
Now I find the term wog, unneeded, true it is a term we should have grown out of.
Some who use it throw tantrums if we are called Skippy's.
Lies? well yes some use them far too freely , even believe it is not crime to tell us non believers lies.
We too tell lies this thread is based on a lie maybe from like me a person born WASP.
Lies how ever leave a poor image, I think many no longer believe much some say on any subject because lies are too freely used.
The western world or at least the best of it, regard lies as an insult to honor, my word is my bond is one of thousands of sayings based on that high regard we hold for truth.
I am aware we all lie but know some do more than others, this zero regard for honesty is very important in the way we judge some sections of some cultures.

As I've said before, I think ALJAZEERA_OZ is just a troll. "Sheikh Haron" also appears to be a fake.

They could even be the same troll. Who knows? Who cares?

As usual, I recommend deprivation of food and oxygen as the best way to get rid of trolls.

Ozzie
Yes its been too long. I hope your being Good!
Well if you really want to help I would appreciate your thoughts.
How can we keep all Muslim people involved in descion making?
Not just AFIC leaders- one or two people telling others what is happening.
Do you have any ideas
Any Muslim resident in Australia cuold gain greatly by the increase of demand for Halal Products.
Australia is a land of oportunity and Halal meat demands are growing
.
Just imagine the Muslim Australians being able to have a part in this industry.
To be able to bring relatives to work the land and open the abattoirs and manufactor Halal products to the rest of the world.

As it is AFIC have never been acknowledged in the past by Saudi as a Halal certifer.

So in short I believe they are taking unnessary short cuts and rolling over to the demands of a few extreme Muslim suppliers in order to get world recogination and of course the funds from handling the accreditation for Halal.

They even asked AQIS to allow them to control Halal accreditations.

They have gone back on everything they said by agreeing NOT to pre stun Animals [or insist they are stunned] which is a blatent act of cruelty.
Leaving if you like the cruelty side out of it you can just imagine if this takes off the resentment from the everyday Aussie towards Muslims in general as they push ritual slaughter here in Australia.

I do NOT believe most Muslim Australians would abide by Animal Cruelty.

Can you help us to get the word out to the majority as to what Ikebal and Mohamed are pushing for?

Its wrong its cruel and it will cause huge trouble if the federal Government roll over to this irresponsible demand.
Fact is most Muslims have readily excepted pre stun meat Halal for a long time.
We need to get other Muslim people involved and informed as to what is going on

Any ideas please Ozzie.

Seems like this is a bit of an odd thread... with CJ raising questions about 'trolls' :) ok..I'll throw my 2cents worth in...

The point which Sheikh Haron is possibly highlighting is the inherrent racism among Muslims. One cannot say 'Islam' is racist as far as I can see (at this point) but it SURELY is sexist.. in the worst possible way "The Believers.....and their wives"...duh..

Arab Racism was rife during the 'enlightened' caliphs.. how much more with the thick headed unenlightened dullards running the show now?

ARAB RACISM.
http://history-world.org/islam4.htm
<<The mainstay of Umayyad dynastic power was the ruling class consisting of an Arab military aristocracy, who formed a privileged class greatly outnumbered by non-Arabic converts to Islam - Egyptians, Syrians, Persians, Berbers, and others. Many of these converted peoples possessed cultures much more advanced than that of the Arabs, and the economic and cultural life of the Arab empire came to be controlled by these non-Arab Muslims (mawali).

Because they were not Arab by birth, they were treated as second-class
citizens. High government positions were closed to them. They paid higher taxes than Arabs, and as soldiers they received less pay and loot than the Arabs. Resentment grew among the non-Arabic Muslims who objected to their lesser status>>

Dear CJ,

What does this say about us though, for even responding to this thread?

My Dear friend , PALE (TarynW)
As I said I wished I could help you, but I can't and I have no idea about it.
My friend I have started a thread to open a debate and ask the opinions of the members of this forum. I've not taken any side in the thread and I've only explained the reasons of both sides.
Why are two members angry at me? I have not said anything wrong. I have said I am Muslim, is this the reason they don't respect me?
We all are members of this forum and we should respect each other regardless what religion we follow.
Am I right?

Ozzie
Yep your right. I dont know Ozzie its really hard for both sides to get a balance I guess.
I get really cranky at some Muslims but deep down I know its only some who look down on us because we dont follow Islam or Allah

I think we have to get the balance right with Muslim leadership.
Thats so! important.
As you know I am far from impressed by the latest choice although I must say I was just as involved writing letters or glowing references to Howard and others.

Perhaps some people are scared that Muslims will try to take over our country and thats why they get so agro.

Anyway how are you and what have you been up to lately?

What do you think about the situation with Campsie and the council Ozzie?

Personally I think its one law for everybody and if he built it in a residential area its his fault.

How say You?

Foxy you are my friend but there is nothing wrong with the thread.
We should question issues such as this.
I honestly think ,true, the person the thread is about is not Muslim.
Not anything other than a trouble maker trying to stir us up.
That is what CJ Morgan calls a troll.
He thinks I do not know, that algezera is stirring.
Maybe not a Muslim?
But we must defend our free speech, even when it offends us to see some things in print.
The worst of Islam lies to us all the time, hates us undermines us.
And some of us are not one bit different!

I just cant see that ozzie has done anything wrong. Ozzie makes comments just like the rest of us.
I see this thread as him saying
Hey guys what do you think.
Sure Ozzie stirs at times but who doesnt.
None of you use your real names except Belly and even thats clear not his name.
Anyway personally I think the real problem of this world is people and especially religion.

I will say it again.
At least muslim Australia leadrs have spoken out about the unnessary cruelty of the barbaric Live Animal Trade.
That far more than I hear From any so called Christian Leaders.
Even thugh my own kids were attacked by Muslim youths and I scream Get them out of my country- I also acknowledge it isnt just Muslims its all of us.
We need to work together and sure Muslim coming here need to knw its OUR home and country and they are not free to change us.
They are free to speak and post and I dont agree with cJ- I think Ozzie is a person- probably young- quite bright with a bit of a Aussie sense of homour that we see come through every now and then.

I think hes probably trying to be accepted by both Muslim and Aussie community.

Reach out in frienship dont reteat in fear.
There are far worse around. Isnt that right Oz?
BTW Ozzie definetly IS a Muslim . Theyalways leave you hanging for a reply. Its just their way.
Most annoying.
Merry Christmass Ozzie

'

wow
very nice comment :)
Thank you TarynW
Merry Christmass to you and all members here
Yes as you said: I am a Muslim.
I like Australians, I like debates, I respect all members her, I expect respectful comments, I am friend :)
I haven't taken any side in this thread, I have my own opinion about this though.
I wanted to see what are the opinions of other members, but unfortunately I don't feel comfortable to post a thread to start a debate because I am Muslim and some members take my thread wrong and accuse me.
Dear TarynW Thanks again for your comment. :)
All the best for all members.
wish you all a happy new year.

Ozzie
You shouldnt feel that you cant open a thread Oz.
Dont kid yourself that they only pick on you.
Oh boy you should read some comments from CJ and others to us.
I am not Muslim nor the others.
It makes no difference trust me.

I believe your Muslim because you got so emotional in the other posts about stuff we Aussies say.

I do think you have been here for some time if not born here because you have a very dry and witty sense of humour which is pretty much Aussie if you stop and think about it.

There are good and bad people in every religion.

I sometimes lash out at Muslims if I think they are trying to take over my country.
Its normal and I am sure they would do likewise in their countries.

What I can see however is we are headed for trouble if we dont get our youth mixng together more.

I dont like this- Them and us leadership from AFIC.
I dont care what they say! they have no respect for words or signed agreements with us.

Trust me I know.

They are NOT serving in the best interests of All people in Australia.

AFIC need new leadership.
Just look now at the many Islamic Councils who DONT recognise them as leaders.

There are far worse than AFIC I know BUT somebody here in Australia who is Muslim MUST stand up and speak out.
Too much inta fighting and too little respect for the Aussies.

Thanks for the christmass cheers I will pass it on to the others.
Dont stop posting Ozzie and be a good boy.
Taryn.
PS
Please help the animals whenever you can
Raise live exports to ME at your Mosque and ask the members to write to Rudd demading they are slaughtered HERE Halal because Allah says- Meriful to animals before slaughter.
Australia should hang their heads in Shame ! because WE send them Alive.

TyranW Thank you
Your comment gives me a lots of energy :)

You are great

ziie
Ah Gee now I am blushing.
Hey Just s the thread doesnt die- What do you think about the Bali Bombers?
Do you think they should be shot?
That ought to get old CJ in action again[ smile]

I think anybody who has committed such awful acts against innocent people should be sjot- Muslim Or Non Muslim..