mjpb, considering that the Pythagoras theory is still one of thew cornerstones of mathemetics, I would say that it is 'real science'.

Tyhe Bosnian wars were a revamp of the Balkan War of 1912. The groups viewed each other as ethnic rivals although only their religion was the main difference. Tito's Yugoslavia bound them into one nation but this disintegrated after his death when Milosevic wanted a 'Greater Serbia' and the Croats and Bosnians wanted independence.

While the USSR was technically athiest, it was amazing to see how many returned to religion at the fall of Communism. I would bet that many of these 'converts' were ex party apparatchiks and commisars.

Jack,
It is interesting to note from your comment of the USSR returning to their faith that the kiling of christians has now ceased. Atheism was the corruption that undermined the peace and security of the State.

I want to assure those that wish to degrade me as being insecure. That I am very secure in what I believe, and my understanding of both religion and political philosophy.

I want to restate my position.
Religion and politics are both based on values - points of view.

Religion is the values that govern one's personal attitudes and behaviours. Politics is the endeavour to enforce by laws those values upon a society. Democracy means the majority values accepted by the people become the Government.

Because Governments are now entering into legislation on attitudes a values [for or against personal religious values] it is removing more of our personal democratic freedoms. There is currently no pure secular democratic State in Australia as the State enforces more of minority citizens religious points of view upon its citizens. Governments are now establishing a religon that does not represent the majorities values..

Politics will enstate into law the social values one believes in [i.e. its religion]. The colour of one's values will determine what type of laws are effected. Religion and politics are totally interrelated and those that deny it do not understand political philosophy.

What you believe about reality will govern your values, as you try to harmonise your reality with behaviours that give the best outcomes for yourself and society.

Nice sidestep, Philo, but spectacularly unconvincing.

>>I want to assure those that wish to degrade me as being insecure. That I am very secure in what I believe, and my understanding of both religion and political philosophy<<

You may feel secure, but everything you write indicates to the contrary.

>>Religion and politics are both based on values - points of view<<

You try to equate values, which are to most people deeply-held understandings of the boundaries of their own behaviours, with "points of view".

Do you really believe they are the same? If you do, I feel sorry for you. But if you don't, then it is just another example of how you try to move the argument into trivial territory. A strong sign that you are uncomfortable dealing with like-for-like discussion.

By equating the two - "values" and "points of view" - you are able to make a case for politics and religion having the same foundation. Which is, of course, utter nonsense.

A casual glance, or even a detailed analysis, of the campaigning that went on at the last election will tell you that religion is specifically shunned as a selling-point to the electorate. When it did raise it head, as in the various one-off visits by the key candidates to one church or another, it was rapidly downplayed.

What is true, of course, is that values underpin politics in the same way that they underpin our daily lives. Doing bad things is considered unacceptable by a significant proportion of the population, be they religious or not. It is however a post hoc, propter hoc argument to suggest that religion therefore forms a key ingredient in politics, or that the absence of religion indicates an absence of values.

>>There is currently no pure secular democratic State in Australia as the State enforces more of minority citizens religious points of view upon its citizen<<

Sorry, that is pure paranoia. If you really want to show that you are "very secure in what I believe", this isn't the way to go about it.

Pericles,
Your belief of how the human mind works demonstrates total ignorance to what is religion. Religion is the values that motivate human behaviour. Your self determined position that religion equates to mere superstition is absolute nonsense. Laws are made upon what are the values of that society.

For instance our society has determined that the first day of each week is a sacred day, so laws were made to reflect that practise. Our society once believed the inhabitable Earth was created in seven days, so that is how we got seven day periods.

People were once forbidden to work on the seventh day under Israeli laws. Christianity relaxed that position and made resurrection day the sacred day - who under the Roman influence adopted the name Sunday.

Our employment laws still reflect respect for that period of time. Religion is exactly what politics is about. Try taking those days away from our society and you will reap the backlash.

Ok just to keep focus of this thread,

Philo you need to look up bigot in the dictionary , it is a case of you the pot calling the kettle black. Dont worry I take no offence , the hearet and soul of Christianity indeed its very essence is bigotry , for the idol which is the christian god is degraded to nothing more worthy of a judge imbued with the prejudice that favours taboo and ritual practitioners and total bigotry against everybody else.

Calling me bigot is in the tradition of that crazy 20th Century Christian Politician and philosopher Adolf Hitler who spelled out in his various writings inspired by various popes being a good Catholic boy on the same sort of things like accusing victims of being criminals and pacifists being terrorists. Ok lets not bring the holoacaust , inquistion, witch hysteria, 30 years law or the execution of those blaspheming mourners into it and lets not mention the children over board , those evil aliens who fled with their own children only to use them as floaties half way around the world. I understand where you are coming from, you cant expect to be aware of beyond the horizon when you dont believe the horizon is there.

Now I forget who brought the Soviets and Maoists into this? No matter , you got to know what you believe in guys , Jesus taught Communism , its in black and white, the only true Christian is a communist, all others are nothing more than pop culture.