CJ,

>>So my response to the barely literate TarynW's hateful post was spiteful,

Absolutely, although I can see that a wish-washy soft lefter like you might have trouble understanding that. It is ‘total lunacy’ to suggest that a council is racist because it is upholding its bylaws. That was my point although you either weren’t intelligent enough to pick it up, or you were being deliberately obtuse. I made no comment at all on the activities or values of the youth club. For all I know they are doing a great job. That isn’t the point. We all have to obey the law.

My point, the one which Tarynw is raising is that so many minority groups now cry racism at the first opportunity that many people, including public servants and politicians are frightened of ever saying NO to them.

Todays Australian carries an article detailing the Victorian gov’t’s new law allowing initiated Sikhs to carry knives to school and allowing Muslim students to wear the hidjab as well. Our schools are supposed to be secular if I remember correctly.

How can we allow knives into our schools? This is another instance of multi-culturalism’s ridiculous outcomes. Are we truly prepared to change everything, risk our children’s lives, so that new migrants don’t have to change at all?

Personally I find the hidjab offensive as should all normal people as it is the clearest possible sign of Islam’s outlook regarding women. What is incredible is that the soft left idiots, especially the radical feminists, would have heart attacks if Christian women were asked to dress in that manner. In fact to comment on women’s dress in any sense is considered a sackable offense in a workplace and a clear violation of sexual harassment laws. Yet these people are happy to have their children exposed to this obvious statement of women’s lesser worth in Islam.

When is enough enough? Why is it so offensive to ask migrants to modify their behavior if they wish to come to Australia. The multiculturalists don’t seem to have any problem asking us to change our behavior.

Jolanda every word in your post could have come from me, if you are racist so am I.
Let us not forget fears held after WW2 did not come to pass.
Real but baseless fears we would no longer be Australia, I learned so very much from Italians, Maltese , Yugoslavians, and Greeks.
My family is full of people from all over the world.
No race is better or worse than another, some from the Muslim world promote dislike of us, the people who gave them refuge, some are not religious leaders some are.
I have true concerns at parents of some Lebanese Muslims who brew hate for us, are we free to say that?
Can we ask why the west stands by while Saudi Arabia questions the right of that legal person representing that poor rape victim to question such a law?
Am I free the ask why the west invaded Iraq for murdering thousands of Innocent people while some country's hold whole female populations prisoner?
My questions are less offensive surely to those street scenes calling for the death of that school teacher?
Hope exists that a man of Muslim background is openly standing against punishing that rape victim we should be helping him a brave good man.

Paul.L ... your understanding of Islam says more about your intelligence than your words have ever intended. Do yourself a favour, if you want to have a meaningful discussion about other cultures and the Australian identity - do some homework.

Until then, your opinions are just those of a rant, not unlike those from a screaming banshee that appears to be part of your mutual admiration society.

Belly, this is a challenging thread ... we all have to respect the differences between cultures. Until we do that, as a first step, racial and religious intolerance will cloud the issues that you are trying to debate. Best wishes.

Q&A: "People who lack self-confidence or self-esteem feel threatened by things or people they don't understand. They become inwardly scared and defensive, if not pathologically neurotic."

Should these passages from the Koran make me feel all warm and fuzzy?

4:102 "The infidels wish, if you were negligent of your arms, to assault you in a rush."

8:39 "So fight them until there is no more disbelief and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the cause of Allah?"

4:77 "Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: 'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?'"

4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah's cause with their wealth and lives."

5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment."

9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

To summarise: "It's not enough to say prayers, you must smite the infidel's neck with your lance! Allah will reward you greatly."

"It is NOT about you/me, us/them, Christian/Muslim, east/west, etc"

Tell that to the Muslims bombing us. (Lances are so 15th century!)

CJ Morgan: Was I "vilifying or defaming" Muslims simply by quoting their own scriptures?
Botheration: Were those quotes "moderate" or "extremist"?

Ah, well they sound pretty extreme to me. It's irrelevent to my argument though - I was talking about moderate and extremist Muslims. The Koran is a ridiculous book that has just as many idiotic pronouncements as the Bible. Thankfully, just as there are many Christians who won't stone women for being unfaithful or sell their daughters into slavery, so there are moderate Muslims who refrain from ambushing infidels

botheration: "It's irrelevant to my argument though - I was talking about moderate and extremist Muslims."

But the Koran is *within itself* extreme!
It's "The Art Of War for Believers".

Imagine Jehovah's Witnesses.
Only with permission to use machine guns instead of Watchtowers.
Not just knocking *on* your door. Knocking *down* your door.
To kill you.

"God told me to".

Even "moderate" Muslims want the whole world converted to their faith, and will passively stand by while extremists reach for their lances.
Questioning their fellow Muslims would be considered treason, making them a target.

"There are many Christians who won't stone women for being unfaithful or sell their daughters into slavery"

Because Christianity has grown up.
It has been modernised and modified by the social developments of the last few centuries of Western thought.

No such modernisation has occurred in Islam.
Islam is still an impetuous adolescent.

Christianity was about 1500 years old before it started "maturing".
And only in response to the freedom of thought permitted in the West.

Christians may once have killed witches and heretics, but not any more.
Muslims are still killing people *today* simply for not sharing their faith (not necessarily for any other specific crime or sin).

Maybe we should wait another 300 years until they've "modernised" before we let any more into the country, eh?

I don't really like lances in my neck.
Or bombs on my train.

Better to be safe than dead.