It has been a good start indeed not Costello but Turnbull back on it a very good move.
That young bloke is it Pyne? best choice for deputy and a well equipped team.
Tony Abbot? gee like a few posters here he has not learned a thing before the next election he Costello our ex foreign minister will have left the house by elections to bring in new talent are a must.
The falling on the sword of Vail may not be the end if an AWB inquire takes place we will hear more if not? another by election.
A very real problem I must highlight, in truth in some states even I doubt Labor is worth electing, but the NSW right is nothing less than a blight on the party new directions please.
And only the best will do Rudd has no workchoices in his plans and is unlikely to make it easy.
last?
Well an understanding of the rejection of fear and lies hate and spite ,it did not work, tell me the voters are stupid and I will ask you to look at the dill in your mirror.
We need strong opposition and I think we are getting it.

Dear Belly,

We do need strong opposition. But I have a feeling that unless the
Libs get their act together - it may be a while before they provide it.
It's probably going to be a fight for the leadership. I can't believe that some of the 'old guard' are going to give up that easily (like Abbott). Turnbull is ambitious - and he's going for it - but will they give it to him? We'll just have to wait and see. I'm hoping that they will realize their strength lies in 'new faces.' And not the same old formula of the past. They need to go and have a 're-think' about what they did wrong - and re-structure the party completely. Otherwise they won't have a prayer the next time 'round either.

Costello turned down the leadership. Haaaa hahahahahaha haaaa! Definitely the best he’s ever done.

That gives us just a tiny ray of hope that the Libs won’t follow on with the same awful continuous growth philosophy that they have always had and will actually consider the need for this country to stop growing. Now if Turnbull would just reconsider and pull back from his leadership aspirations, and Abbott and Bishop and Nelson…and….

O what’s the point. There all just so far off-track that there is no chance of them being an effective opposition with any of the current mob.

An effective opposition would be a party that pushes really strongly for maximised attention to be paid to peak oil, population stabilisation, a dynamic steady state economy and genuine sustainability. An effective opposition would be considerably greener than the Greens.

This is the sort of thing that we need at this point in time and especially as we head into the near future where all sorts of our past follies are going to rise up and bite us on the bum. And what better time is there than right now at the start of a new term with the leadership wide open for the Libs to realise this.

They need to be so very different from what they have been and from the government, and they need to do it in a way that will appeal to the populace. The people are warming rapidly to the imperative of sustainability and the prerequisite to bring a halt to rampant human expansionism.

I reckon it is time that the Greens made some very strong efforts to influence the development of a new direction for the Libs.

I am both surprised and full of hope apart from Abbot, what drives that man?new leadership is on the way.
No coalition please just one party one set of policy's coming together of both party's.
Abbot would hurt his party badly if he won, he will not like Vaille and Costello along with Downer the best thing they can do for their party is leave.
By elections new blood new ideas and then to overcome the mountain John Howard built Rudd we however need strong opposition.

Today in our National news paper a respected reporter throws his hat into the ring supporting Tony Abbot as conservative leader.
So very wrong! it must be clear this defeat was nothing less than total rejection of the very style of this government.
Abbot came out of the election as he went in tainted, his time in industrial relations was awful, he did his party no favors with his insult to our Berni Banton, yet he claims to have people skills?
A coming together of both party's nats and Libs is a must Turnbull has an idea of the needed direction Pyne would do well in second spot, in truth Abbots best contribution would be a by election.
Let the governments workchoices legislation pass and consider ways to remove the NSW rights influence or stay in opposition nation wide.

“So very wrong!”

Agreed Belly – Abbot is a complete no-no-noOOOOOoo!

But what makes you think Turnbull would be one iota better?

The thought of him as leader really makes me shuddududududududder!! I can’t imagine how on earth he might improve the Libs position. He certainly wouldn’t take the party in the political direction that this country needs, as I outlined above.

What about Pyne? I wouldn’t have a clue.

.
Corrections yo my first post;

That blasted missing word syndrome strikes again….

‘Definitely the best THING he’s ever done.’

And “There all just so far off-track” shoulduv been ‘They're all just so far off-track’

(:>\ pfffff

As a Labor voter, I'd say Tony Abbott and Christopher Pyne have the best chance of keeping the Liberal Party in opposition for at least two terms. So I vote them.

Ludwig in my mind Turnbull is from the left of his party, now Abbot has found reality only 2 remain Nelson has the backing of the NSW right, the best boat anchor his party has.
Without an end to the thuggish dirty letter boxing and much more that is produced in that camp no opposition can rebuild.
Make no mistake the NSW right is bad news for its own party branch stacking to remove real talent and real filth has taken place.
I am more than comfortable with a good strong opposition, and have no doubt it will be no easy task to unseat Rudd.
Watching Queensland today you have to ask can the party rebuild even in time for 2010?
Like him or not Turnbull can do it, maybe win 3 seats back nation wide against the flow.
Hopefully he could retain the 5 seats subject to by elections in his mob by then too.
by by by by Johny good by, have to stop that! keep shouting workchoices that one old fella at the strangest times!

Hi guys and girls,
My name is Scott Clark.
I am a member of the Liberal Party and I hear alot of people saying the Liberals are finished, destroyed.
Look back to 2004 and you will see the Labor Party was decimated on a far greater scale than we the Liberals were this past election.
Three years later the Labor goverment was swept to power.
They say 2 days in politics is a lifetime, 3 years is more than enough time for us to rebuild and regroup under the Leadership of Malcolm Turnbull.

Thankyou
Scott Clark

Hello Scott. Welcome to OLO.

What do you make of my suggested change in direction for the Libs, in line with what this country desperately needs, as expressed in my first post above?

I’m sure many Liberals would dismiss it outright. But I’m also sure that it would not run against the basic philosophies of the party.

Hi Ludwig,

Thank you for your welcome.
I have been a Lberal member for some 8 years. You are right that now there is no better time for us as a party to think about taking a new direction.
With Malcolm Turnbull as the new leader I can assure you he is a very nice guy and seriously smart politician.
Malcolm I believe will be able to take the Liberals into a new future, keep us united and keep inline with our conseervative attitudes and policy.
I don't believe an effective opposition needs to be greener than the Greens as the the Greens can be labled extremist. The Greens may have it in good spirit but however their policy would do serious economic harm.
A good Party needs to be economic smart, climate smart and also have a good heart one of compassion.
John Howard whome I know personally did always have the best of intentions, he was just stuck in his ways sometimes.
He is a very nice man and would not have done anything intentionally to harm Australian Families.
The best path for the Liberals is to rebuild, unite and recount on our mistakes and learn from them.

Thankyou
Scott Clark

Scott

“You are right that now there is no better time for us as a party to think about taking a new direction.”

Glad you agree.

“Malcolm I believe will be able to … keep us united and keep inline with our conservative attitudes and policy.”

Hold on – is there a conflict here between a new direction and conservative attitudes and policy?

Perhaps it is time to develop progressive attitudes and policy. Perhaps the Australian public is a bit tired of conservatism, especially when they can see that the world as we know it is very likely to radically change in the near future.

“…as the Greens can be labled extremist.”

What Green policies or philosophy do you think are extremist?

continued

I can think of some Liberal policies that are extremist:

The baby bonus and the push to increase our birthrate when we need to be doing exactly the opposite and achieve a stable non-continuously-growing population.

The worship of 3 or 4% economic growth every year with no end in sight, which means a doubling of the economy in about 20 years and a quadrupling in 40 years and so on, in a time when rates of resource consumption, waste production and environmental degradation urgently need to be tempered.

The absurdity of the continuous growth spiral, of high immigration and increased birthrate in order to provide the skills and labour for a dynamic economy, and the need for an ever-growing economy in order to keep the provision of a high quality of life up to the ever-increasing population!

Some of the fundamentals of Liberal party doctrine have been about as extremist and absurd as you can possibly imagine. They have been taking us directly towards a huge upheaval of our society!

Unfortunately Labor is no better, or perhaps fortunately for the Libs, because it gives them a chance to really be seen to be different, in such a way as to garnish support from the general populace.

Big business may not like such a change in direction. But now that the Libs don’t have to pander to the business lobby, it shouldn’t matter. If they can convince the public of the sort of change in direction that I advocate, and I think they easily can, then the business lobby will adapt accordingly.

Gday Scott and welcome, my name is Allan Bell, in time you may find it is unwise and not needed to name your self here or in such forums.
Some real nuts out there, and some one from within your movement or outside it may miss use what you say one day.
I am very long term ALP an activist in fact.
Also a trade union official, both from ALP right factions.
I too think Turnbull is your best choice, in fact he will do very well, if the NSW right let him.
You will forgive me or maybe you will not, if I highlight the one term turn around was historic, extremely unlikely to be seen again soon.
Some factors at play for that statement?
Rudd is unlikely to find his workchoices , he understands his task, and will not forget Howard's failure to remember his.
It is worth while understanding John Howard until workchoices was clearly the only choice while Labor ran leadership like Crean and the waster of air Latham.
Never forget AWB Tampa and much more.
Australia voters did not they clearly voted just as they had wished once new direction and leadership came to the ALP.
Rebuild ,it is a must for this country but do not fail to remember.

Dear Scott,

Welcome... If the Liberal Party regroups with a new team - under Malcolm Turnbull - who knows what may happen in three years.
Also, has the party considered Julie Bishop? She's always struck me as a very capable politician...

I now have to withdraw the threads title, I got it wrong.
Rather than a good start the wrong team has been put in place, have no doubt by no more than mid term it will be clear.
If Nelson leads into the 2010 election he will not win ten seats, he however is unlikely to lead that long.
He and his deputy have supported workchoices! an outstanding blunder watch this space.
The taint of the NSW right is still evident and the refusal to even try to understand the nature of the defeat is clear.
I have zero doubt, todays move was of more use to my ALP than conservative Australia.
I invite conservatives to challenge my views but remind them time will tell who gets it right.
workchoices? by mid term conservatives will have true reform balanced reform to struggle with ,now was the time to dump past mistakes not lionize them.
Not ten seats in 2010 maybe more lost if contact is not made soon with middle Australia.

Belly, I don't know wnough of Julie Bishop but really don't have much confidence that Brendan Nelson has what it takes to turn things around. Hopefully not as bad as Flegg in Qld but Nelson's public presentation does not come across well.

From what I know of his handling of the replacement for the F111's I have little confidence in his ability to make good decisions.

I'd best get used to having "my side" of politics in the opposition seats for a while. It could be worse though, I could have been a democrat supporter.

R0bert

Belly, I hope your not going to be disappointed and I hope I will be surprised by the new government. I reckon the next Lib PM will be a bolter as was Rudd. Neither Turnbull nor Nelson appeal, and Abbott, well never. Pyne lacks touch, and Costello never wanted it.

Maybe Bishop or big Joe?

Anyone for the saw that we don't vote the new guys in, but that we vote a government out?

Brendan Nelson? No way. Hopefully he won't last. As for julie Bishop,
well, we'll have to wait and see. She's no Gillard that's for sure.
As for Turnbull - better him than Abbott. Don't the Libs have anyone that's a worthy match - for Rudd and Gillard?
Probably not.

I will not be disappointed! I go on record here and now , the best possible conservative leadership has no easy task to win the next 2 elections.
Australia is more than a economy, we have hopes and aspirations far bigger than our bank balance.
While my stand as a trade unionist /ALP welded on activist is clear do not under value the true unfairness of workchoices, it stings still.
Do not miss the sharp turn in history, the contempt some unions and some officials bought on themselves is well earned.
But the avalanche of hate and fear about unions failed to sell during this campaign.
Rudd, remember he is elected now I have no need to sell him, will re craft IR in a balanced way, unions will not be totally happy.
Hence the continuing your rights at work campaign but business will not find reason to want it overturned.
Bishop must face reality, she can not govern from opposition , to want to keep workchoices may make her famous in Perth, but needlessly hurts her promising profile here.
Nelson is a part timer a seat warmer the fight for him to just hold his position will be less than a year.

Maybe Belly the best possible conservative leadership has just won government.

Friend I can feel even understand the hurt in your remark, once I would have shared it!
But while it rankles you it is true.
My life has gone from youthful dreams of Communism and the far more acceptable to me now Socialism.
Both failed me, both got it wrong, both could not attract a crowd if entry included free tickets to the Melbourne cup and football grand final of your choice.
The depth of the left on the net is deeper than in the real world.
Labor ,my ALP has often been flogged in elections as a result of policy's not shared by more than a minority.
Even if that is what we have New Labor is at least going to achieve something.
We in opposition can do nothing.
Just think Rudd's first task AFTER he won ,not to win votes get out and meet the homeless, go to schools and ask what can we do, I am so proud of him!
Greens want more far more, but face it! Australia does not!
Some will never understand Howard's war on the already poor, even he did not understand the full impact of workchoices.
Compare my party to his and tell me there is no difference, my reply in advance is you have much to learn.
Watch a candidate with a future Bishop use her first public speech to defend workchoices and tell me my party is like hers.
How many Australians left right or center would feel threatened by renewal in education social service delivery accountability from public servants and governments?
How many would cry about paying more to fight climate change or save water?
In any case we can get used to conservative Labor for 9 years at least only the true conservatives can replace us no other chance will ever exist in the country, no leftist dreams just reality.

Dear Belly,

I fully agree with you. The Libs will have it tough - and rightly so.
But selecting a team that was pro-Workchoices (Nelson & Bishop).
What on earth are they thinking? At least Turnbull was for a Republic - which shows some Maturity on his part. As for Pyne - weeeeelll - he's about as exciting as Ruddick or Andrews!

Where are the 'good guys' in the Liberal Party? Or is that a redundant question?

Foxy unlike Nelson I will not one day swap sides, my views here are honest ones ,what is best for Conservatives.
Like you I am stunned that workchoices is still unburied by this Wil Robinson team.
Bishop however has to say idiotic things like that, she is from WA currently running away from the rest of us.
Her future seems assured ,she has talent and if she can bite the bullet of reality, understand the defeat and its causes she will do well, if not? let us see she will learn.
Nelson has the dead hand of the NSW right on his shoulder, only failure awaits him.
Turnbull like him or not had an idea we should have seen even as late as mid campaign, blame it on Howard.
True, worthwhile and even smart but the ever intruding hand of the extremists ,yes that is the word, who from NSW far right have blighted the party had its say.
In truth they said do not mention the defeat it will go away.
Dreaming of an ALP explosion? do not count on it!
Get in touch with middle Australia it may take a while the surge away from Liberal paths was a very big one.
One party not a coalition now, rebuilding starts with and end to blaming anyone but the group in charge for this defeat.
I walk the streets and still hear rubbish, childlike rubbish about the voters getting it wrong!?
You can not rebuild if you have such a foundation.
Bishop has a future she however must understand WA alone can not win elections, if she learns that one day she may make PM.

The overnight outburst from Peter Costello must be closely looked at.
He we are told never had the numbers to challenge John Howard.
He was liked within his own party but more unpopular than Howard outside it.
If some one like Turnbull, even Nelson had been given a go 12 months ago the defeat would have been a lessor one.
But defeat it would have been still.
John Howard even after his wrong turn and march away from his supporters had too much sway over his party, Conservatives believed his legend.
Costello, the strange little man Abbot the equally bizarre ex foreign affairs minister must think party first, leave bring talent into the party, but not yet.
Wrong leadership and wrong policy's ,refusal to understand the defeat would see the seats lost.
Each public we should have done this or that only helps my party a few we got it wrongs are a good start but understanding it took all those 3 years all those actions fueled by blind faith in a leader who was lost already to demolish a government.
And they are unsure about workchoices?
Sorry but the Kevin 07 flag is still on the car and smile still on my face, vote for your rights at work still brings joy.

It has been one week yet it seems like a year to me, it is time to ask why the support for the burning embers of Howard's government.
I am finding it hard to understand why the talk about workchoices revolves around not passing it.
And that it was a union beat up? come some of those saying that are very bright people.
In time an understanding of its true impact on low income workers will come , but every day its harm is questioned is another lost day for conservatives.
My members office, he is not of my party, has already told me it was a bad policy badly put together and it hurt very much.
Yet in reality the window dressing will soon stop next year the day a new Parliament sits the huge task for conservatives will be forced home?
Predictions?
worse before it gets better for Conservatives
Nelson gone by end 2008
Bishop to stay a very long time.
Costello Abbot, Downer not to face another election.
NSW right to suffer its numbers reduced
One conservative party by 2010 election
That election a win to Labor ,less than 4 seats lost if any.

“I now have to withdraw the threads title, I got it wrong.”

I agree Belly, but for a different reason to what you state.

The title should not have had the word ‘conservatives’ in it.

The Libs need to get right away from that tired old tag and replace it with ‘progressive’ or something along that line.

If they continue to plug the conservative line I think you are right – there will be only one conservative party by 2010... and it won't be the Libs.

There is no point in them remaining conservative. That would mean remaining a shadow of Labor, basically.

They need to present a very different option. The nature of that option is very clear indeed to me, as I have elucidated in my posts above.

Hello Liberalparty, are you out there?

Can you respond to my posts of 28 November.

Thanks.

Ludwig with truly held respect, for the very same reasons I gave up this thread or was it another?
I was challenged with a view Labor was the best conservative choice in Australia.
Well it is! it may well be New Labor, no fears in that for me.
The lights on the hill of my childhood are gone the family now owns shares some like Brendan Nelson are Liberals and doing quite well.
Howard's downfall is not a sign peoples social conscience is stronger, just self interest is better served without him.
No party will rule us, ever if not based in voters heart land the center.
The party I fight has lost because it left its base, and because my party fought for the ground it vacated.
Social change can not be implemented from opposition Labor has no intention of visiting those bench's for some time.
On face value the Liberals have even less intent to return to our side of the house soon and even less chance.
Moderation of policy's and a bit of stealing ALP ground maybe but the day that mob become anything else is never coming.
May seem both unlikely and threatening to you and many but one day both major party's will often combine senate votes to over come the influence of minor party's.
Watch it happen, after all if it did not we would often be ruled by a handful of members.

Brendan Nelson polled half the votes Turnbull did in a poll asking who was the best leader.
If you have doubts about this poll please note only 9% thought Abbot should lead, that proves those polled understand the subject.
How long will it be? before it is fully understood this election result was much worse than Lathams?
That it was and is the lowest watermark ever for the Liberal party.
Yet it may get worse!
Nelson has to drag his party behind him for only a limited time Turnbull will remove him in time, then the rebuilding can start.
14% of voters said Nelson should be PM.
Over 60% said Rudd.
Total defeat.
Total rejection.
Now the NSW right continues to harm its party not serve it.
Bless them all , thanks for the Christmas present!

Didn't I say all along that JWH should've called an election for new leadership before calling an election and our winning team would have been Leader Malcolm Turnball, Deputy Brendan Nelson with Barnaby Joice as leader of the National Country Party. This would have made it much more even in the Eastern States. These ideas are not on hindsight this is what I said then Mal Brough may have also have been a good contender for Deputy at that time. Abbott and costello were finished long ago the Public did not like Keatng copy cats so unprofessional.

Shades of pre Howard conservatives, the leadership election was won by a margin of 3 however.
One who voted later lost his seat, should never have been able to vote.
2 who had a plane run late did not get a vote?
Turnbull the Medea says questioned the vote, he now says he did not.
In a poll, noted for its biased conservative tilting 68% said the vote was unfair.
The NSW Liberal right must remove its dead hand from its party's throat.
The opposition bench's are looking like home for a very long time.
Now is reality time, Rudd will not fall over he may yet beat Howard to second spot on the longest PM lists.
Strong united opposition is not going to be a product of Nelsons leadership.