Yes Deborah58, it seems to be common in herd or pack animals to miss one of its members especially their young. A cow will bellow for days, travel miles calling and wont eat when her calf is taken from her. But is it emotion? or for your dog, is part of adjusting to a new pecking order, or new routine? Coincidentally, the cow will stop bellowing when her milk has dried up. (I am not talking about dairy cows) Was her bellowing to find the calf to relieve the pain of her engorged udder, or was she missing her baby?

People on the land will have probably observed that strangest of cattle behaviors when cattle find blood and gather around with what appears to be stress and appear to lament the spilling of the blood of their own . Perhaps it is a "Call to arms".?.

"mjpb..that horse story, hilariuos...are you sure that horse really planned it that way?:)"

Not at all but he was a cantankerous s.o.a.b so I wouldn't put it past him. In hindsight he was standing in an unusual way.

"Like for example..farmers etc will inflict all kinds of cruelities on animals and because they dont react to pain in the same way we do ,and assume that they then, dont feel any or much pain?.like muellesing, docking,cruel shearing practices,removing testicles,sewing up tears etc."

Alot of those relate to sheep who seem so stupid one might wonder. But I'm sure they feel pain. Perhaps the farmers are just rationalising their actions with wishful thinking when they don't see much of or any reaction.

"If we cant relate to the subjects of any controlled study or trial to determine pain, suffering or whatever, we cant actually get an accurate result..if they cant tell you then you cant then just assume their answer...that is not for anyone to say except the subject themselves..we havent learned 'talk to the animals' yet so until we do..."

Would you assume that a deaf and dumb person could not feel pain if they had not learned to communicate? Why is it essential to put it into words when the pain is sometimes so clearly expressed? If a human said "that hurts" they could be lieing. However if reacted like the hurt animal you could be more confident that they were hurting.

“Perhaps the farmers are just rationalising their actions with wishful thinking when they don't see much of or any reaction.”

Rationalising their actions? Do you feel that farmers perform some of these procedures for the fun of it? I have seen a couple of times on this thread reference to farmers inflicting cruelties on animals. Do you think those comments are fair?

Sure, I will agree that there are some animal husbandry procedures that I feel are unnecessary, but the majority are in the interest of the animals long term health and well being. (as long as a farm animals life can be I suppose)

I am sure that if is was unnecessary to mules, dock tails, castrate etc, the farmer certainly wouldn’t bother with all that time and expense.

We are not talking major surgery here, the animal no doubt feels pain during one of these rather quick procedures, but isn’t that better than living in distress or dying a long painful death?

Lets just think for a moment about the pain we inflict on ourselves or fellow humans in the name of health, beauty or whatever. Vaccinations, dentistry, all sorts of medical procedures.. We know it is necessary so we tolerate the pain for the long term benefits.

Pisces..I think the point is, even when we go to the dentist we are offered pain relief are we not?

So why then arent animals given pain relief when it is a simple enough thing to do ..Id say because the farmers are too cheap or too lazy and just dont care.A local anthestic ,a quick injection..how hard can it be.?

In this day and age we should be embracing new practices and welcoming more humane methods of pain relief to animals whereever it is possible..

And as for the barbaric shearing practices..sack them.

'In this day and age we should be embracing new practices and welcoming more humane methods of pain relief to animals whereever it is possible.."

A very valid point Taurus. Why arent these things available to farmers? OK there has been a big fuss recently about mulesing and now they are developing a pain relieving spray? farmers have wanted these these things for ages but unless a vet is present (at astronomical expense) it is not possible?
What can they do?