JackTheLad

"Again the maths that today’s youth is tackling is, by your own admission, made possible by the use of programmable calculators. Seems to me they are more operators than mathematicians if they are just plugging figures etc into their hand-held computers."

Certainly the maths I remember doing never even required techniques that the students were presumed to know, such as long division and multiplication, because prowess in arithmetic wasn't the point. This makes me sceptical of the idea that modern calculators are allowing students to do more complex maths.

Sylvia.

Oh I get it, if you're not a sock or a white supremacist, you're just a coot.

God help us from performing arts students eh? I can just imagine it now, the power goes out, all hell breaks loose and Jack yells out to the missus "fetch me my pencil and slide rule, the computers are out and I want to teach those teenagers some mathematical and grammatical skills before civilisation collapses."

The swastika is most commonly associated with nazi ideology.
Your belief that the academic establishment is some kind of force aimed at bringing down the west was being likened to the nazi pattern of demonising jews as a force striving to bring down the german establishment. This belief is paranoid.

In relation to the calculators, it is far more than just tapping things into them.
First the students must program the calculators to perform the task they wish. They must work out these formulae, and adapt them to various situations. It allows them to perform far more complex calculations in a field such as triggonometry, than would have been possible in the past. Rather tha laboriously performing the same tasks over and over by rote, the calculator allows them to proceed on to more difficult tasks.
Calculators can't think. They're a tool.

I'll concede that more students are proficient at the use of software than programming it.
That being said, even the programming skills are more advanced among the younger generation.

Plus, most are more adept at using communications technologies.

As far as your doomsday scenario goes, the point I made was:

Which scenario is more likely for today's student:

1) A doomsday scenario, requiring a slide rule.
2) A situation where they are required to interface/program/communicate with software.

I'm going to say, option 2).

Sylvia, you are spot-on about the maths having little to do with arithmetical functions. Calculus, trigonometry and algebra are more an application of rules and working through problems than arithmetic. In ‘ye olden days’, logarithmic and exponential functions were worked out on paper. New technology speeds up these functions by taking out the hard slog. All that means is that more can be done in less time, but of the same complexity.

Bugsy, I think that you’ve lost it. Instead of explaining the meanings of your acronyms (maybe you used them but don’t know what they mean either), you call me a water bird (unless you have a secret meaning for coot).
From your rabid defence of the back-slide I can only surmise that you are either a ‘modern’school teacher or a ‘modern’ school teacher’s victim who has had his head filled with meaningless drivel as a substitute for good learning.
Quothe Bugsy, ‘Umm, er, me can’t use a slide rule or speek an spel properly but I is a gooder purformur at the arts than youse’.
What a wasted education.
BTW, what will you do if the ‘power goes out’? Your ‘magic boxes’ will be no use. You could always perform a dance.

TurnRightTurnLeft, by your logic, you could easily substitute the hammer and sickle for the swastika as communists are also ‘paranoid’ and also find groups to demonise (class war), not to mention the countless millions murdered by Lenin and Stalin (and Mao).

I have already agreed that the calculator is labour-saving, allowing more work on problems to be carried out. That’s all. More complex problems are still only solvable by those most adept at pure mathematics.

What do you mean by being more adept at using ‘communication technologies’? Not texting, I hope.

Your choice of the scenarios is fine and well – as long as the power stays on.

"TurnRightTurnLeft, by your logic, you could easily substitute the hammer and sickle for the swastika as communists are also ‘paranoid’ and also find groups to demonise (class war), not to mention the countless millions murdered by Lenin and Stalin (and Mao)."

Yep. I don't see how that changes anything. Bugsy used the term to make a point about your post. I really don't see what you're getting at by saying other terms could be used as well.

And make no mistake - the belief that a majority of academics are trying to bring down the west is indeed paranoid. In saying they're 'trying to' you declare that bringing down the west is indeed their motivation, which is profoundly foolish. While I suppose I could understand someone believing they are unintentionally contributing to the west's downfall (even though I disagree), pretending this is their motivation requires thousands of univerity academics, who all go home to their wives and families, to actively want to destroy the western way of life they enjoy.
Believing in a conspiracy of this magnitude is paranoid, and manifestly foolish. I've heard these views before, and they're invariably expressed by those who have grown so cynical they are out of touch with the community they feel the need to comment upon.

In relation to the power staying on - I imagine that will be of more relevance to electricians than IT specialists. It's still far more likely that students will need to use computers.

Communications technology extends well beyond texting.

MSN, Skype, forums/blogs, email attachments, bit torrents, webcam conferencing, social networking sites and blackberries, to name but a few.

"Explain your acronyms right now young man!"

Ah, Jack, I hope you are not a betting man, because today you are right off the money. In fact so far away from anything remotely resembling myself, my education or political leanings that I would have thought you were talking to someone else. Although by your admission of leaving school when you were 16, does seem that you have a resentment towards people who inhabit institutions like universities, even though you have probably never even set foot in one. Oh, and get a better dictionary, I think the one you are using is rather limited (or you could use "teh googles").

You my friend are a lollersaurus.