The Forum > General Discussion > What's happening to our pronouns?
What's happening to our pronouns?
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Posted by Sylvia Else, Friday, 28 September 2007 10:58:19 AM
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I blame the skoolteechurs. They am too busy wiff pumping kids heads full of PC rubbish instead of teechin thum proper grammur an spellin.
Posted by Jack the Lad, Friday, 28 September 2007 5:06:52 PM
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I don't see the problem here. When "Jim and I" or "you and I" is used, that is actually the grammatically correct usage.
Posted by Bugsy, Friday, 28 September 2007 6:01:33 PM
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Bugsy, I'm not sure whether you're just trying a wind up, but anyway, see the personal pronoun section of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrect And also http://www.bartleby.com/68/31/831.html http://www.bartleby.com/68/94/5794.html Despite a certain state of flux in usage, there is no doubt in my mind that standard English still requires "Do you want Jim and me to do it?" and generally the phrase is always "between you and me", never "between you and I". Sylvia. Posted by Sylvia Else, Friday, 28 September 2007 7:43:27 PM
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Ah, yes now me see. Me retract my former statement. But why anybody would be concerned about it is beyond I.
Posted by Bugsy, Friday, 28 September 2007 8:36:02 PM
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The character Kylie Mole has a lot to answer for.Instead of "she said", we constantly hear,"she goes".Where does she go with such a poor grasp of grammar and syntax?
The pro-nouns I'm afraid,along structural grammar have prostituted themselves in the name of sloth. Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 29 September 2007 12:16:10 AM
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I can't remember exactly what the show's character, Melanie, said, but it was something like "Do you want Jim and I to do it?"
This appears to have started in the USA. I first became aware of it years ago in the expression "between you and I" but it's spreading, both geographically, beyond the USA, and into other parts of the language.
I have yet to hear anyone say something like "Do you want I to do it?", any more than we hear people say "Did you give it to I?" I suspect that what we're really seeing is a move towards using subject form pronouns in object positions only when linked by conjunctions, or perhaps only with the conjunction "and".
Add to that the use of object form pronouns in subject positions, "Me and Fred went to the shops" - which is similar to something I heard Delta Goodrem say in an interview - and it's becoming a total mess. Again, I haven't heard anyone say something like "Me went to the shops".
So here's my hypothesis as to what the grammatical rule is becoming:
a) In the subject position, the subject form pronoun is used unless the pronoun is linked by a conjunction, in which case the object form pronoun is used.
b) In the object and indirect object position, the object form pronoun is used unless the pronoun is linked by a conjunction, in which case the subject form pronoun is used.
Future grammarians are going to have a field day with that.
Sylvia.