"Once again - not my targets so I have no interest in specific dates."

Yes, that's what I said. To the we're-all-gunna-die crowd targets matter right up to the point when they become obviously unachievable and then they no longer matter.

"Indonesia's power projects from 2025 - 2034 highlight a US$63 Billion investment in base load renewables...."

Oh, there you go. Targets suddenly matter again.

What gullible souls like WTF fail to realise is that these 'targets' are not at all what these governments plan to achieve. They are soothing words they put out to appease the western elite, while they get on with the job of utilising their fossil fuel resources.

"Indonesia's power projects from 2025 - 2034 highlight a US$63 Billion investment in base load renewables"

In this instance base load refers to hydro, geothermal, biomass and nuclear.

https://www.ashurst.com/en/insights/indonesias-new-power-development-plan/

Wind and solar are intermittent, but hey, let's not spoil a bs story with factual information. Incidentally, the plan involves building about three times as much coal and gas generation as wind and solar.

How is it WTF, that with all the failed claims and promises, as well as many downright lies (I have a vague memory of all the wind and solar farms being built out in the desert (non-arable/low environmental impact) and the power transferred by hvdc.),you still appear to take every claim and prediction of the wind and solar grifters as gospel?

Ditch the grifters.

WTF?

mhaze: It's governments that set targets not me. You introduced: "Indonesia will do whatever it needs for the good of its people."
I'm just pointing out Indonesia's plan to do "whatever it needs".

I think that Fester has been reading too many of mhaze's posts.

We are all very familiar with how it goes with mhaze.

After realising that he cannot contort the discussion away from the fact that Uruguay's total cost of electricity production decreased by roughly half compared to fossil-fuel alternatives, he uses his one last trick.

It's always good sport when mhaze makes a statement, contribute it to someone else and then argues against it and expects a response.

It now seems that Fester wants to add that to his playbook.

When this happens we know nothing is left for the renewable alarmists' except the usual deflections.

WTF,

Nowhere have I disputed what Uruguay did, as much as you'd like to pretend otherwise.

What I did do, however, is point out that what they did has no lessons or examples for Australia to follow and indeed precious few lessons for the rest of the world to follow.

And that point is what you've been trying very hard to not notice.

This childish notion of yours that you can cherry-pick a few facts that suit your ideology and expect us all to swoon and agree that the whole world should become Uruguay just doesn't fly.

WTF?

mhaze in your first post on this thread you state: "Tell me again how cheap renewables are!.

They are cheap enough to allow Uruguay to have a "total cost of electricity production decreased by roughly half compared to fossil-fuel alternatives."

An interesting aside is that Indonesia's renewable base load future investments (US$63 Billion investment in base load renewables) is not dissimilar to Uruguay's current base load renewables. So someone is paying attention.

I thought I would check out the claim that electricity prices halved because of the introduction of renewables. Turns out that's not true either. It's another spin of the LCOE versus all-up costs shell game. So renewables are cheaper at the point where they leave the generator, but the energy ecosystem they exist in increases that cost substantially. Turns out that the cost of residential electricity in Uruguay is pretty close to what we pay in Australia. And more expensive than what they paid in the past. Currently it is USD 0.27 per KWh, in 2008 it was USD0.177. They had a bad year in 2010 when it peaked at USD 0.34, but that's not representative.

For interest, the fossil fuel they were using was diesel, and the market for oil fluctuates wildly. They also needed to import electricity from neighbouring countries when drought limited hydropower.

Uruguay is an upper-middle income country, but if they want to join the high income countries, as they aspire to, then much more electricity will be consumed - they consume about 33% of what we do in Australia. They have no sites left for more hydro and the best wind sites have been exploited, which leaves only solar, which is reliably absent for around 50% of the day, so they are building new fossil-fuel plants to deal with the issues: http://www.caf.com/en/currently/news/new-caf-co-funded-thermal-power-plant-in-uruguay/

This is why you should never take Greens' claims at face value - the details rarely check out.