WTF?

Fester states: "My concern with wind and solar relate to its high costs, long build time and huge land requirements."

Firstly, the "high cost, long build and huge land requirements" myth has been shredded so many times, even here on OLO, that I am assuming that any different opinions are the result of youtube ranters yelling into the wind.

Secondly Fester opened with talk about coal fired power stations when the Indonesian Government has announced a coal phase-out policy and then he/she/they gets confused when this anomaly is pointed out.

Quite strange.

"It really is of no concern to me if Governments reach their energy targets on specific dates or not. "

Yes its always been like that in the whole moronic climate debate. This or that issue is vitally important until its shown it can't be done and then the alarmists suddenly don't care.

We had to upend the world to save the polar bear until we found out they didn't need saving. Then no one cares.

Ditto coral.

Now that we know the koala doesn't need saving, they'll quickly come to not care.

We were told we had to keep temperatures below 1.5c above 19th century levels or we'd all perish. Then when they found out that wasn't possible, suddenly they didn't care.

We had to get emissions down by 70% by 2050. Now that that can't be achieved they don't care.

_______________________________________________________________________

On Indonesia. Fester's spot on. They are saying one thing, which is of coarse the thing the anxiously gullible like WTF want to hear, and doing another. They say they'll phase out coal and yet are currently building 20 new coal plants, most of which are being done by China to suit Chinese interests. Tell me again how China is committed to reducing emissions!!

Indonesia will do whatever it needs for the good of its people. And that means telling the gullible western leftists what they want to hear, while advancing the Indonesian economy on the back of its vast reserves of fossil fuel.

And when they fail to meet their unachievable targets, we'll be told they don't care.

So, the strategy of the Albo cult seems based on claiming that all shortcomings of wind and solar are mythical.

"the "high cost, long build and huge land requirements" myth has been shredded so many times, even here on OLO, that I am assuming that any different opinions are the result of youtube ranters yelling into the wind."

What is relevant for electricity prices is the system cost, not the generation cost. System cost modelling shows wind and solar to be more expensive than nuclear and coal. Real world experience, such as the 37.5% yearly price increase in Australia, would suggest that wind and solar are more costly than the models suggest.

There is plenty of reputable research showing why wind and solar are a costly and environmentally destructive option, no mythology required.

Indonesia is taking over Australia's mineral processing and providing the power for it with coal. Why can't Australia keep its mineral processing with all that cheap wind and solar power being generated? Why are all the businesses closing if wind and solar are so cheap?

Australians are being conned. Get rid of the grifters.

WTF?

Poor old mhaze just does not get it.

mhaze states: "when they fail to meet their unachievable targets."

Once again - not my targets so I have no interest in specific dates.

As a technophile my interest is the direction that energy production is moving.

The change is inevitable. Governments can make targets but the economics will dictate the timeframe.

Uruguay is an example of how this can happen in a resource poor country and the renewable energy alarmists are in a tizz because it doesn't fit their youtube ranting misinformation sources.

Poor old mhaze - it's called the shotgun approach. Spew out as much as you can and hope something hits.

Climate debate, polar bears, coral, koala bears - what a hodgepodge of ideas in a thread about Uruguay. There is nothing left in the tank.

The "high cost, long build and huge land requirements" myth has been shredded.

mhaze states: "Indonesia will do whatever it needs for the good of its people."

And they are.

Indonesia's power projects from 2025 - 2034 highlight a US$63 Billion investment in base load renewables, a US$ 34 Billion investment in Solar and Wind and just US$ 26 Billion in base load thermal.

Just like China, Indonesia's future is renewable focused during this transition period.

Bad luck mhaze - wrong again.

Uruguay undoubtedly has a good track record, and is the second richest country in South America, after Guyana, and it has a low Gini coefficient as well - 0.39, which is not too different from Australia's at 0.32. Guyana's is 0.47 or thereabouts, partly because its wealth is from recent oil exploitation, so the benefits are not evenly distributed and represent a windfall to some extent.

But the cause of Uruguay's wealth isn't cheap electricity. It uses small amounts of electricity per capita because it has not much manufacturing. Its economy is based around agriculture and services. So power costs are not central to economic well-being.

It should have cheap electricity anyway as it is essentially a hydropower system with biofuels being used to power its wood pulp industry, and mostly wind being additional to its baseload representing the real "renewables". Hydro is the cheapest form of generation, and is a renewable which has been around for a very long time. Unlike coal it doesn't have to be kept running 24/7, so it can load follow the renewables.

So it's a bit like Ontario, a province in Canada which is almost emissions free in its electricity sector, and where electricity prices are reasonable.

But you can't compare this to Australia where hydro is confined mostly to Tassie.

It all sounds very nice but has Uruguay had to allocate future funds
to build 10,000 km of 500Kvolt power lines ?
In their electricity charges have they included the costs of replacing
all their solar & wind generation in 20 to 25 years time ?
Not to worry, pretty certain Bowen has not thought of that !