The Forum > General Discussion > Why religious freedom in a secular society is vital
Why religious freedom in a secular society is vital
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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Monday, 9 December 2024 11:24:47 PM
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It's happening already mhaze,
SYRIAN REBELS SAY THEY WILL NOW MOVE TO CONQUER ISRAEL http://x.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1866036321212576083 Look I just want a better world where nations aren't trying to dominate and rule over others and where there's endless conflict. Ultimately it's about respect, decency and dignity. We're supposed to want a better world, and to try and leave it a better place when we're gone. Why are we here, why do we all post in the forum? I was thinking about it yesterday, thought to myself, you know what, we all argue over different things, but what's the bet we all essentially want the same thing, but maybe we disagree slightly on what that 'thing' actually is, and how we're supposed to get there. I post plenty of stuff, more often than not I add links to back up the things I put forward, and many of those people are in better positions to know than us, and you won't catch me out advocating violence because I have ethics and principles. If this thread is about religion, why does it only have to be about the good aspects, aren't the bad aspects just as equally important, if not more important? Yes I know it's the wrong map, doesn't include Syria http://x.com/realstewpeters/status/1863083365047390656 Let's consider things hypothetically. How are they going to achieve Greater Israel? First they are going to have to surround themselves with enemies, and then fight a war in self-defense which they pre-emptively start. Then they will have to create conditions in foreign countries so bad from a radical Muslim threat (Jews being slaughtered in the streets) that all Jews will return to Israel. It's not just me saying this, it's what some Muslims and Jews say themselves. I could give links as well but right now, I think I've pushed the entire issue more than I'm comfortable with, given the government plans to create Anti-Semitic lynching squads. I'm not against people per se, I'm against stupid ideas. Stupid ideas being the principle problem, and people behind them a secondary issue. All religions are flawed, they all have pros and cons. Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 10 December 2024 4:27:50 AM
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Dear Banjo Paterson,
The answer to your question is in general terms in the affirmative - spirituality can exist without a materialist component and without any formal structure, but there are caveats. People do not typically just get up one morning and say "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity [Ecclesiastes 1:2] - I am no longer interested in the world, neither its riches nor its pleasures nor any name and fame interest me, I no longer care whether I experience pleasure or pain, fame or notoriety, sickness or health, nor even whether I live or die, I only love God, I now want God alone...". This may be the last mile of a 500-mile journey, but one cannot walk the last mile without first walking the first 499. Before genuinely starting on the inner path, one would typically progress in early life using some formal outer forms of religion, performing good and unselfish works of service and refraining from what is wrong or unethical. But then there are those who, so to speak, have already done their homework in previous lives/incarnations, who are therefore born ready for the last mile without even hearing about formal religion, traditions or theology and without a verbal faith to proclaim. Otherwise, many turn to spirituality directly and try to give it a go for a while, but only few persevere. Without faith, it is hard to keep going when things get tough and significant sacrifices are required, but when one is already prepared, faith is replaced by knowledge and so is no longer required. I hope this answers your question, please do not hesitate if there is more you like to ask. Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 10 December 2024 8:29:30 AM
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Hi Yuyutsu,
Previously you said "religious freedom is paramount", meaning it's above all others. I don't agree, if it is a religious belief that human sacrifice is necessary, then does that surpass a persons right to life? Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 10 December 2024 3:18:47 PM
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Dear Paul,
«if it is a religious belief that human sacrifice is necessary, then does that surpass a persons right to life?» Forget about "belief" - believe what you may, but can human sacrifice [of another] be a religious action? Does God actually like it? Can it in fact possibly bring one closer to God? I don't think so - do you? Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 10 December 2024 4:02:59 PM
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AC write: "Yes I know it's the wrong map, doesn't include Syria"
This after he'd snidely commented that I didn't know what I was talking about as regards Netanyahu holding up maps showing Israel conquering Syria. This is AC's way of admitting error without actually acknowledging he's been caught out fabricating for the umpteenth time. Its like trying to hold rancid custard in your fingers - it keeps pouring through because it has no substance. Meanwhile the news just keeps getting worse for the so-called Axis of Resistance and better for Israel as the full extent of the losses Iran has suffered becomes more apparent. As Netanyahu foresaw, the Middle East is today a very different place from what it was on 7 October last year. Its now just a matter of time before the Lebanese army takes it courage in its hands and finally purges Hezbullah from its polity. Jordan is also becoming an issue. The strange thing is that the Hashemite kingdom may end up relying on Netanyahu to save its bacon. I wonder what price Israel would extract for that service? One final observation that some are making. On previous occasions when Assad was threatened, Putin had been able to save his regime by throwing massive forces at the rebels. But this time, all Putin could do was a day or two of desultory bombing followed by a rapid retreat. Clearly Russia is stretched to their limits in dealing with Ukraine and have no other forces available for any other purposes. I wonder if China is watching? Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 11 December 2024 6:38:28 AM
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Dear Yuyutsu,
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Many thanks for that interesting explanation of the Hinduist concept of religion and spirituality. I appreciate it.
It is simple, clear, and easily understood. You master the subject well.
I have copied it for future reference.
I just have one more question : I have seen it written that many people today have become dissatisfied with traditional religion and turn to spirituality without religion and, possibly, without belief in God and other supernatural beings.
You indicate that in Hinduism, “spirituality could be referred to as the inner part of religion …” but could spirituality stand alone, without religion, and, even without faith ?
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