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Dear mhaze,

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You wrote :

« Banjo wrote " I consider that there is a greater probability of the falsifiable empirical sciences coming up with the correct explanations of how the universe and mankind came into being"

I have Christian friends who also believe that their religion doesn't provide all the answers right now because the deity is unknowable, but that in the fullness of time all will be revealed.

So, two different world views, each with faith …But treating one as complete fantasy while the other is totally rational is, shall we say, a tad disingenuous. »
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You’re comparing apples and oranges, mhaze.

I refer to probability and you refer to your friends’ religious belief.

Probability is the branch of mathematics concerning events and numerical descriptions of how likely they are to occur. The probability of an event is a number between 0 and 1; the larger the probability, the more likely an event is to occur. A simple example is the tossing of a fair (unbiased) coin. Since the coin is fair, the two outcomes ("heads" and "tails") are both equally probable; the probability of "heads" equals the probability of "tails"; and since no other outcomes are possible, the probability of either "heads" or "tails" is 1/2 (which could also be written as 0.5 or 50%).

Religious belief is “trust or confidence in, acceptance of any received theology” (OED).

It seems to me that faith transcends probability. Faith and rationality exist in varying degrees of conflict and compatibility. Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority. Faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or empirical evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.

Here is an article that traces the historical development of thought on the interrelation of religious faith and reason :

http://iep.utm.edu/faith-re/

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I know we've lost a few extremely intelligent forum members of the last few years.
I honestly think Banjo Patterson is probably the most intelligent and sensible thinking member of the forum currently.

"Probability is the branch of mathematics..."

Thanks for the education, but I have statistics in my degree so have a passing (/grin) understanding of probability.

To calculate the probability, you need to have a series of parameters. Complexity determines the number of parameters. The probability of a certain result from throwing a die, you need to know at a minimum how many sides the die has and if its a biased die. So two things. The probabilities of a climate outcome requires tens of thousands of parameters to be considered. And so on.

So calculating the probability that science will finally arrive at the answer to life, the universe and everything requires a bazillion parameters to be considered ie no such calculation is possible.

But you expressed confidence it would happen. And that confidence is based on faith in the processes of science to arrive at THE answer. Faith. No better, no worse than the faith shown by some theists that their understanding of the world will eventually arrive at THE answer. Or more exactly that the answer will eventually be presented in a way that even the doubters will accept.

Again I'm agnostic on this.

But faith in science and the belief that it will eventually determine the answer is misplaced. Science has been wrong as often as its been right. But it claims that being wrong is part of its process while denying the theists that option.

Its the arrogance of those who claim to be followers of the science that I find lacks self-reflection. They treat theists as naive and irrational, while holding steadfastedly to naive and irrational beliefs themselves.

As I said above, Web is currently unearthing information that brings into doubt much of what had been taught as established fact in the 20th century. This will result in a new set of 'facts' being presented in the 21st century which will be just as firmly held as unassailably true. And then in the 22nd century...?

Thinking that we know or are even close to THE answer via science is the victory of hope over observation.

Science v's Religion = 'Let's argue over the big bang'.

The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Institute_for_Near_East_Policy

"The Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), also known simply as The Washington Institute (TWI), is a pro-Israel American think tank based in Washington, D.C., focused on the foreign policy of the United States in the Near East."

New article:

How Syria’s ‘Diversity-Friendly’ Jihadists Plan on Building a State
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-syrias-diversity-friendly-jihadists-plan-building-state

Jihadists 'Diversity-friendly' [rolls eyes]

I suppose these jihadists support equal rights for women?
What are their pronouns? 'Behead', 'rape' and 'bomb'?

- There's your Pro-Israeli support for jihadists mhaze.
Sick of all the religious fanatics, regardless of which particular religion.

You're becoming increasingly deranged AC as the world fails to work out as you've predicted. You have this rather childlike attitude that everything is binary - people are either entirely pro-Russian or entirely anti-Russian; pro-Israel or anti-Israel. Nuisance is an alien concept for you.

This thinking leads you down the garden path. Thinking like - Assad is anti-Israel therefore those attacking Assad must be pro-Israel therefore anyone who favours Israel must favour the people attacking Assad. Its inane, insane and very childish.

The people attacking Assad are no more pro-Israel than any other moronic Islamist group. Israel has no friends in this fight. If the rebels take out Assad, Syria will remain just as much a foe of Israel as before. Why is this opaque to you?

You say its no coincidence " these events in Syria began soon after Israeli / Hezbollah ceasefire" as though that revelatory. But its clear what happened. Assad was supported by Hezbullah, Russia and Iran. His entire regime relies on these 'allies'. But Israel has made mincemeat of Hezbullah and has put Iran back in its box. And Russia has its hands full trying to get as much done in Ukraine as it can before Trump steps in. So Assad was left naked and exposed. These rebels are taking advantage of that but not at the behest of Israel. That part you've just concocted in that vivid imagination of yours.

Netanyahu said just after 7 October 2023 that the middle east would look very different once all this has played out. Hamas is basically over. Hezbullah is at the mercy of Israel and, eventually the Lebanese military, and has been forced to beg for peace. Iran is left exposed to the IDF whenever it so much as looks sideways at Israel. Assad is forever weakened. And Russia's presence in Syria is being diminished. And this is all before Trump puts his finger on the scales.

Netanyahu - a man of vision.