The Victorian government has invited males pretending to be women to take part in an enquiry into women's pain!

Woe betide any professional, including doctors, who object; they could be sacked or struck off the medical register.

Christian commentator, Lyle Shelton, calls it “rainbow rule”, and blames our “weak and woke political class” in both major parties, who follow the Greens in the radicalisation and warping of sex/gender.

Lyle has introduced me to a new word - ‘autogynephilia’ - which describes “a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as female”.

So, the Victorian government is helping out men with psychological problems, instead of concentrating, and spending the money on, the legitimate needs of actual women.

Rachel Wong of ‘Women’s Forum Australia’ says that it is absurd to have to state the obvious: that men can experience female health conditions.

But, what is not absurd about Left wing governments, Victoria's in particular, these days! Ah. Forgot: the Opposition is no better.

http://dailydeclaration.org.au/2024/07/25/womens-pain-inquiry/

Thanks for the thread ttbn. It sounds similar to the anti-White-male/ anti-White divisive 'coercive control' laws coming out of NSW. White Females need to realize that they are being manipulated by Marxist Trotskyite's to stir up the war of the sexes in White nations and destroy our culture. I'd hope that our young women were smarter than that. White Females need to work with White Males to defend White Culture rather than turning traitor to their own ancestors.

Look, ttbn is at it again with a beat up story, this time he's on side with a religious political nut job in Lyle Shelton, head of the wacko Family First Party! ttbn is in total agreement with all this far right crazy has to say, faithfully sitting in his underpants, so he tells us, banging away at his keyboard 5 times a day, regurgitating utter nonsense, and claiming it as fact!

CM

I think that the women can look after themselves. Not so sure about the the blokes. As you say, it's all about communist divide and conquer.

Many women are cherry pickers. They say they don't want to be treated like maidens when it suits them, and maidens when it suits them. They are fans of the kangaroo court- immoral.

Women need to take responsibility for their own positions- but they are too pussy to do so- they need to grow some balls.

At some point women will realise that men and women are different and that is ok. Sometimes it's a problem and sometimes it's an advantage.

Women need to stop letting themselves be manipulated by Woke Marxist's and trust their families more. If they look after their family the world will follow.

Part of wisdom is knowing that you don't have all the answers.

When things are 90% ok then any changes you make are likely to make things worse rather than better.

Society isn't better now than it was 70 years ago.

Women are not happier now than they were 70 years ago.

Women don't feel that their lives have meaning and purpose now? A sense of being part of a continuity larger than themselves.

CM is a typical misogynist, who can't get his head around equality, and that applies to all he views as "different", Aboriginals, gays, Muslims leftists, progressives etc, not just women. Then he rants the nonsense that its all some great Marxist plot to usurp the sovereignty of his own white Anglo Saxon race. He doesn't understand the meaning of equality and justice for all, he just knows privilege and power.

CM

Most men and women are the same in one respect - we don't hear from them. They sit back and allow a few big mouthed knowalls to take charge. The so-called women's organisations are not really about women at all: they are about a few hard-bitten harpies wanting to be noticed and getting whatever taxpayer money is available. They don't give a toss about real women and their well-being and safety. You don't hear them saying anything about males muscling in on women's sport, perving around in women's change rooms and so on. Nor are they interested in forced marriages, genital mutilation or an Indian immigrant burying his Indian girlfriend alive in South Australia.

They have a purely political agenda.

These activists do far more damage to their own sex than any man could.

Drunk woman's advice on arguing with total strangers online.

https://youtu.be/xqyOpWi1rOs?si=huJrnN_NG56t51I0

ttbn

Chop off the last letter “s” on https and link will post as live.

EG:
https://youtu.be/xqyOpWi1rOs?si=huJrnN_NG56t51I0

http://youtu.be/xqyOpWi1rOs?si=huJrnN_NG56t51I0

"Indian immigrant burying his Indian girlfriend alive in South Australia."
- Oh what a racist thing to say ttbn.

Just wanted to beat you over the head with the 'racist card'.
What wre you thinking saying such a thing?

We need to be respectful of other cultures.
Maybe burying your girlfriend alive is a normal respectable thing to do in their culture?

Here's one from April:

Woman Dies After Being Set On Fire By Boyfriend In Chandigarh: Police
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/woman-dies-after-being-set-on-fire-by-boyfriend-in-chandigarh-police-5407025

DD

Right. Thanks. Bit shaky these days, much to the delight of the ageist you-know-who.

AC

Dreadful of me. The creep is in jail, and will “probably” be deported when he gets out. All part of “successful” multiculturalism. The part the anti-Australian brigade doesn't mention, for some reason.

I see the mother of the child-and-husband- under-under-the-train tragedy being “deported” because the husband’s work visa had expired, and how Australian authorities should have “compassion”.

The fact of the matter is that the mother had decided that she wanted to return to India to have the support and love of her family. Who would not! Her family was making arrangements for her return as the w…kers were w…king about the situation.

The media responsible for the vomit this time being SkyNews, which has joined the rest of the media, punching out Leftist ‘misinformation’ and tripe.

And, while we are on culture: when I heard of this awful event, I immediately imagined an Anglo family with little blonde twins. That's because of my culture, and the culture of my country. Normal to me. Probably makes me a nasty pasty to the usual suspects.

I also, naturally I believe, wondered who was in charge of the pram.

But, a brainwashed police Superintendent, mindful of his pronouns and promotion to Chief Superintendent, advised the press that “they” took the “their” hands off the pram handle.

We live in a stupid, artificial, and highly restricted society.

"Woman Dies After Being Set On Fire By Boyfriend In Chandigarh"

Re the ancient Indian practice of woman sacrifice.

In a better world when the Anglo culture was much more sure of its moral superiority and not yet corrupted by the thought that all cultures are equal, comes the story of Charles Napier, one of the British governors in the Sindh region of India. He came across a site where priests were preparing a pyre to burn alive the wife of a recently deceased husband. He asked them to stop but was advised that this was a ancient practice and he shouldn't interfere.

This was his response..

"Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs"

The practice of Sati was discontinued in the region.

Western civilisation was once confident enough to impose its superior moral positions on others for the good of all. That is no longer the case.

ttbn,

It was a tragic accident plain and simple, but you with your racism can't help but politicise in purely racial terms. Pathetic, "Probably makes me (ttbn) a nasty pasty", you said it.

Trumpster,

How does it sit with you, the burning at the stake of women in Europe for witchcraft.

"In a better world when the Anglo culture was much more sure of its moral superiority"; Was that before or after the burning at the stake of women by those good old white Anglo Saxon ancestors of yours?

Apples and pears, Paul. Not that you'd understand.

One was about executing women for the crime of being married to someone who died, the other was for actual crimes (invalid though they were) and weren't limited to just women.

Nonetheless, as I explained to those open to explanation, the issue, as with slavery, is that death by fire was a universal practice which was ended by the enforcement of post-enlightenment western values.

Look up, Paul. That's these nuances going over your head.

Trumpster,

"enforcement of post-enlightenment western values" barbarism has continued in Western societies well past "enlightenment", it is still happening today. Example, God fearing Christian White Anglo-Saxons were lynching Negros in America until relatively recent times. Australian Aboriginals were being castrated and tortured to death by White Anglo-Saxons, maybe they hadn't received the good news of post-enlightenment western values. Legalised murder of innocent women and children in the Middle East by "Western" Zionist-Nazi's is taking place right now! How do you equate this to your western values.

I'd try to explain the difference between societal standards and the acts of a few people who sit outside societal standards, but its Paul. So it'd go over his head.

Even if the myths he believes (eg Australian Aboriginals were being castrated and tortured to death by White Anglo-Saxons,) were true, and they're not, those acts would have been perpetrated by people against the dictates of their society.

Burning widows was part of the Indian culture. A superior culture bought it to an end. I don't know why that is so hard for some to follow, or applaud.

Trumpster,

"A superior culture bought it to an end" how can it be "superior" if it was allowing equally barbaric acts to be perpetrated, often in the name of Christianity, and with the tacit approval of the state. How many white Anglo-Saxons were prosecuted for the estimated 3,500 American Negros lynched post civil war, right up until 1968?

Why isn't your man Trump calling out the barbaric actions of the Zioist-Nazi's in Gaze? In fact the grub has given approval by entertaining the Zionist-Nazi Fuhrer Netanyahu at his home in Florida.

"Zionist-Nazi Fuhrer Netanyahu"

Wow, you're becoming increasingly deranged here Paul. Please take a bex and have a good lay down.

I notice that you still use the Palestinian claims for the death toll even after I proved to you that they were lies. Still lying is right up your alley so no surprises there.

BTW, are you in favour of the British eliminating the burning of Indian widows?

The Victorian government has been criticised for
its approach to a major study to women's pain after
biological males who identified as women were
invited to take part. The government response has
been that it is trying to be inclusive in its dealing
with medical problems like menapsue and especially -
endometriosis.

The criticisms are understandable. If you don't have
a uterus - you are not a biological woman. It would be a
very rare case for men to experience endometriosis.
And as for menapause?

It would appear that there really is no need for men who
identify as women, to be part of this study.

The study is an important inquiry and apparently a
necessary one - to look into these health problems
of biological women who suffer greatly in trying to cope with
dealing with menapause and endometriosis.

It's a pity that the criticisms could influence the reputation
of this inquiry.. Not sure where the medical profession
stands on this. Or if it was even consulted.

For me this is hard to understand.

Would they include men who identify as women, in an
inquiry on breast-cancer?

Trumpster,

Derangement, when you oversee the mass slaughter of 40,000 innocent men, women and children, some would view you as deranged. Yes, you were able to supply "evidence" that the 40,000 number was a lie, you quoted the bipartisan words of Zionist propaganda sheets, well done old salt! Just as you claimed "evidence" for the rigging of the 2020 American Presidential election, your evidence was the words of the criminal Trump. I am a complete novice when it comes to spreading lies on this forum, you sir take the cake in that department, you keep repeating the lies of your beloved folk hero The Dangerous Doctor Donald, I can't top that!

I repeat the question, which you are unable or unwilling to answer;
How many white Anglo-Saxons were prosecuted for the estimated 3,500 American Negros lynched post civil war, right up until 1968? A superior culture as you claim would not tolerate lynchings on a mass scale, its as intolerable as burning wives, in my book

" you quoted the bipartisan words of Zionist propaganda sheets"

No. I provided data from the UN. Sheesh.

"your evidence was the words of the criminal Trump."

No I provided evidence from various studies done by independent groups and the state electoral commissions. Sheesh

As usual, all this goes over your head.

OTOH, I never provided evidence on poll numbers, even though you lyingly claimed I had done so... I can't help but notice that you never acknowledged that lie.

As to the lynchings in the US, as I recall several hundred were jailed/gaoled for their parts in various incidents. The point of course being that they could only be jailed if it was against the law and it would only be against the law if the society treated it as wrong ie a culture that was a vast improvement on all others in existence at the time. Don't worry, Paul, none of us expect you to follow that.

You still haven't said if you praise the British for stopping the practice of sati.

I can't help but notice that you ran a mile when I called you out on your myths about aboriginal castration. But don't worry, I won't mention it.

"Would they include men who identify as women, in an
inquiry on breast-cancer?"

The trans ideology says that not only do people who transition to a different sex act as though they are that new sex, they actually become the new sex. So a man who transitions to become a women, actually becomes a women in this ideology... reality takes a holiday.

Therefore it becomes transphobic to say that a trans women can't have breast cancer or period pain. There was a case in the US where a women who transitioned to be a man died because he/she/it(?) fell to a bad pregnancy but it wasn't diagnosed because, as a man she couldn't be considered to be pregnant.

In the UK its illegal to deny trans men, (ie shielas who become men) a prostate examine even though they don't have a prostate.

Its all insane but very much a sign-post for the times.

Trumpster,

"You still haven't said if you praise the British for stopping the practice of sati." Seems a reasonable outcome to me, but I don't put it down to any actions of a superior culture as you claim, but the actions of one man. As for your superior culture, it was that God fearing white Anglo Saxon culture than on October 27th 1857, castrated aboriginal men, raped aboriginal women and girls and then murdered them all, that went unpunished by your white authorities, obviously evidence of a barbaric culture. Agree?

As for "several hundred were jailed" for their part in the lynching of Negros in the Deep South of the US.....simply hogwash on your part.

What of the state sanctioned, by the God fearing white Christian Anglo Saxons, the penal servitude laws (slavery by another name) imposed on the black population in the Deep South US until 1942, hardly the actions of a superior culture would you not say? Hundred died through inhuman treatment as the result of forced labour under those laws.

mhaze,

This discussion really threw me. It made no sense to me
What the Victorian government
was doing by including transgender women in their inquiry on
women's pain.

I began to do more research - regarding transgender
medical care.

I came across the following:

http://yalemedicine.org/news/transgender-medical-care#:

The article asked:

"What does medical care look like when you're transgender?"

We're told that:

" Until more providers are trained in transgender care, many
patients will need to advocate for themselves."

"There are an estimated 1.4 million people in the US who are
transgender. It's a relatively big number and yet, many of
these individuals have difficulty finding doctors who are
right for them and their needs. Many have heart-breaking
stories about their experiences with health care providers,
even during a routine physical."

"Some providers make dehumanizing comments or won't acknowledge
their gender identity. Others ask inappropriate questions or
even refuse to treat them."

" But those who care for transgender patients have a message.
Don't give up on getting medical care."

" The doctor's office should be one place where everybody feels
safe and cared for, says Christy Olezeski, a psychologist
and director of the Yale Medical Pediatric Gender Program which
serves children, teenagers, and young adults up to age 25."

"Why do transgender patients face road blocks when seeking care?"

This is a question that did not occur to me earlier - at all.

I did not look at things from this perspective.

I am beginning to realize that my understanding of the
situation was narrow. I am starting to begin to somewhat understand
why transgender women are being included in the Women's Pain
Inquiry. It may help me better understand what
transgender really involves. And the problems they
face in our society.

Perhaps the inquiry will do that for others as well.

Hi Foxy,

Transgender people, I can understand that they have difficulty with medical treatment and finding heath professionals with expertise and understanding of their special needs. Again we see spiteful people, these old farts, who want to denigrate others for being different. Don't be swayed by the forums number one Old fart and his machinations on any subject, he's generally off his chops!

A friend of mine, told me how he was "medically" treated as a teenager for his disease of "homosexuality", that was in the 1970's, with his parents consent, he almost committed suicide, his life was a wreak. That "treatment" was done by a so called Christian doctor, it involved drugs, and even shock treatment. Fortunately today he is one of the finest human-beings I know.

BTW; A small number of men do develop breast cancer, rare as it is.

"As for your superior culture, it was that God fearing white Anglo Saxon culture than on October 27th 1857, castrated aboriginal men, raped aboriginal women and girls and then murdered them all, that went unpunished by your white authorities, obviously evidence of a barbaric culture. Agree?"

Just making stuff up again.

The older I get, the more I realize how little I really
know. There's so many subjects that are outside our
own experiences and I guess we all make assumptions
about others that we shouldn't.

That all should change
if we try to be inclusive. But then perhaps it is
human nature to be tribal as some point out.

This discussion has been a real eye-opener and that's
just one of the reasons why I enjoy OLO.

We can learn from each other.

Dear Paul,

I remember reading the biography of the transgender Australian
cabaret performer and TV personality - Carlotta years ago
and being moved to tears. Also the biography of Cate McGregor,
the prominent transgender writer, communicator, and former
Australian Defence Force Officer and friend of former PM
Tony Abbott.

And I think we all know Courtney Act (Shane G. Jenek) Australian
Drag Queen - and very talented performer.

We've had people who are "different" living and working
alongside us for generations. In every profession, and
industry not only the entertainment field. And it is time
that we recognised their existence - and the problems
they're faced with and try to make things better for us all
in society.

cont'd ...

Paul, do you remember Danny La Rue? Or American
RuPaul? Both fabulous entertainers.

Drag has been a part of our lives for decades.

"Drag has been a part of our lives for decades."

Don't confuse drag/cross-dressing with transgenderism.

One is about blokes dressing up as shielas and has been around since at least Aristophanes' plays. But when they take the dress off they are still blokes.

Transgenderism is about people declaring that they have actually changed their sex. That by saying 'I'm no longer a bloke, but have actually become a shiela' they think they really are female. And they expect the rest of us to go along with the charade. And they think they now are open to all the medical issues associated with their imagined gender.

Of course some blokes think they can fall pregnant...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chnlQQCsTVw

There are two sexes: male and female. The "confusion" is better described as lunacy.

As long as children are protected (currently they are not), individual adults can do what the like, in their own time, on their own dollar.

The rest of us should not be involved, or expected to be involved, in the insanity of a few weirdos.

Well, from the comments here - So much for trying to
understand others and their
experiences. (sigh).

A shame that it has to be for some:

" My way or the highway? "

Especially if the differences are not hurting any one else.

Why can't we just admit that:

That we don't know much about the differences that exist in
our society and communities? Why resort to name-calling?
And labelling?

We probably do look at things through the filter of our values,
culture, religion. We all have our likes and dislikes.

But:

What do we really know about homosexuality, heterosexuals,
male, female genders, or transgender?

I recently came across the term - "pansexual" - which I hadn't
heard.

There's much to learn about the world we live in. But of
course many people feel more comfortable in what they are
accustomed - and pre-judge any one else outside of their
world.

We all do it I guess. And it is understandable. Especially if
we don't have any exposure to the worlds and experiences of
others. Hence, education is important. Or at least learning
something about each other may just make our communities better
for all. Inclusion works better than exclusion, as history has
shown.

NSW Libertarian politician, John Ruddick, regrets that he backed same sex marriage, saying “the rainbow cause has become a religion without a god”. They have all these “feast days and holy days” that they think everyone wants to acknowledge, that last forever.

. Transgender Visibility Day all March
. International Day Against LGBTQIA+ Discrimination in May,
. Non-Binary People's Day in July
. Wear It Purple Day in August
. Pronouns Day in October
. Asexual Awareness Week in October
. Intersex Awareness Week in October
. Intersex Solidarity Day in November
. Transgender Awareness Week in November
. Trans Day of Remembrance in November

Apparently there are lots of big salaries involved in this crap. There's a serious addiction to the taxpayer-funded gravy train.

Ruddick says there are at least another 22 taxpayer funded rainbow programs.

"" My way or the highway? "

Especially if the differences are not hurting any one else."

Foxy, no one here is calling for anything to happen to these blokes/sheilas for their transgenderism. A few have actually spoken about how "individual adults can do what the like, in their own time, on their own dollar."

You are trying to create division where none exists. I thought your were against division.

While we can adopt a position of letting them live their little fantasies, it doesn't mean we are required to accept them. We are still (for the moment) allowed to point out that people with penises can't get period pain and people without prostates don't need prostate exams.

.... if that's OK with you.

The major problem here is that the trans community aren't prepared to live and let live. They demand that we accept their fantasies as valid.

I'll pass.... if that's OK with you.

Of course, sometimes this transgender fantasy does cause harm.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13660579/transgender-athletes-female-Washinton-cycling-championship.html

mhaze,

Read the posts on this discussion.

We must interpret things in different ways.

What I find offensive - you obviously do not.

"What I find offensive - you obviously do not."

Well, as you know I am a very easy going, open minded, person. I find little that is offensive.

But I'm still baffled as to what you'd find offensive in the comments on this thread. Just give a few examples, please.

mhaze,

You obviously don't find the labelling of anonymous people
who happen to be different as - "weirdos", acccusing
them of being WOKE, Marxists, communists - who divide
and conquer, women and kangaroo courts, and much more,
as being offensive - being the self-proclaimed tolerant person
that you are.

However, in our society you are a tiny minority. And perhaps
in the future you will find yourself being the butt of all
sorts of accusations - then you just may go down the memory hole
and begin to understand the offensiveness that others felt and
are feeling today.

But I uhnderstand that you will undoubtedly find what I post
as being "crap" and "gibberish." And you'll be looking for further
arguments - it's in you DNA

Feeling oggd?

You might note that tbbn also said "individual adults can do what the like, in their own time, on their own dollar."

And I'm not at all sure these people would find being called marxist, communist or woke as offensive but instead a badge of honour.

I suspect you just made the accusation without thought and then tried to retrospectively and vainly tried to justify it.

"Feeling oggd?"
Well I might be... if I had the faintest idea what it was.

Now back to the issue as originally raised following Foxy trying to deflect from her errors.

Transgenderism in other times would have been seen as a medical and mental complaint. Now its an ideology. That's fine for adults. If adult women want to cut off their tits so they can pretend to be blokes...their call. If blokes want to try to turn their cocks into fake vaginas... no skin off my nose.

The real problem is when the ideology involves kids. There are places when puberty blockers are given to kids as young as 10. Child abuse is way too mild a term to describe that.

Foxy says she wants to read the other side...start here.
http://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/CassReview_Final.pdf

Here are some things about transgender that may be of
interest:

" Today, there are an estimated 1.6 million transgender
(age 13+) in the United States, whereas globally IPSOS
estimates that 1% of adults identify as transgender as of
2023 with an additional 2% identifying as non-binary/gender
non conforming/fluid, or something other than male or female."

"More and more people are openly identifying as transgender
(& LGBTQ+) every year and visibility is catching up. More than
4 in ten (44%) adults in the US know someone who is transgender
as reported by Pew and more than one in five (22%-27%) knows
someone who uses non-binary pronouns other than he or she.
A substantial increase from recent years."

"IPSOS found similar trends in increased visibility across
30 additional countries."

"This is not a new phenomenon."

"Transgender and non-binary people have existed for centuries
among cultures across the globe."

"While issues facing transgender and non-binary communities
have recently received greater attention from policy makers,
government officials, and the public transgender people have
been around for centuries in cultures and history, as early as
5000 B.C."

There's more at:

http://www.hrc.org/resources/seven-things-about-transgender-people-that-you-didnt-know

Here are guidelines and what medical treatments do transgender
youth get:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/what-medical-treatments-do-transgender-youth-get

So that's a "no" to reading, let alone absorbing, the Cass Report?

mhaze,

" 10 Apr. 2024. England's Cass Review ignores the consensus
of major medical bodies around the world and lacks relevance
within an Australian context say medical practitioners,
parents and human rights groups."

" The Cass Review downplays the risk of denying treatment to
young people with gender dysphoria and limits their options by
placing restrictions on their access to care."

"The Cass Review recommendations are at odds with the current
evidence base expert consensus and the majority of clinical
guidelines around the world."

http://equalityaustralia.org.au/cass-review-out-of-line-with-medical-consensus-and-lacks-relevance-in-australian-context/

So that's a "no" to reading, let alone absorbing, the Cass Report?

Just run to Google to help you find someone who'll tell you what you want to hear. Standard Foxy.

Elsewhere someone named Foxy wrote ""If we resist reading what we disagree with, how will we ever acquire deeper insights into what we believe?"

Must've been a different Foxy. Or else she's a hypocrite. Tough to tell the difference.

mhaze,

More deflection from you.

I did read your link which challenged your presented
views.

Cheers.
 

I meant to say that I did read your link and gave another
perspective from medical and other experts, including parents,
that challenged your presented views.

Men Feeling Women’s Pain

I was in woolies this morning, poking around the health section looking for cotton tips.
(I hate these new cardboard ones btw, gimme back the plastic ones)

So I'm looking around and found myself facing a whole entire wall of tampons and pads etc when the Woolies staff member comes waltzing around the corner into the aisle.

I thought 'Geez, I should just say I identify as a woman, and if she looks at me funny, I'll tell her not to antagonise me because I've got my girlies and I'm in a bad mood'.
Obviously she would be understanding and feel my pain. No?

Isn't today's modern society stupid...

Am I the only one who can recognise a "fashion" when I see one ?