According to the Australian Medical Association (AMA), the National Party’s position on vaping shows a complete disregard for the health of Australians including school children. In a letter to Nationals leader David Littleproud, AMA President Professor Steve Robson denounced the party’s position on vapes, and called on the party to cut the cord with its BIG TOBACCO DONORS. Before announcing their "vaping policy" The Nation Party received a $55,000 donation from British American Tobacco. The sizeable donation came at a time in 2023 when the Federal Government announced that significant tobacco and vaping control measures would be introduced into the Australia parliament. One can see why the National Party would oppose tougher laws, it's in bed with the peddlers and profiteers of the tobacco/vape industry, no question about it!

Now at epidemic proportions, particularly among school children, vaping is another deadly form of nicotine addiction, a drug addiction the National Party seems happy to see continue.

The hard right of the National Party is screaming blue murder, as government laws passed through the Senate with GREENS support, nothing from the Noalition, laws ordering Kiddy Vape Shops to be closed by next Monday. I'm sure Matt Canavan is disgusted!

Meanwhile, Young Dutton is getting his face on social media holding a bag of white powder in a Gold Coast unit, seem it was a birthday present? How strange. Previously Peter Dutton has called for 2 years jail for anyone displaying such images on social media. Still making that call Pete?

Hi Paul,

Doctors caring for adolescent patients have been interviewed on
in the media asking for stronger laws. They
are realizing the
health hazards associated with vaping and are looking
for ways to fight this epidemic.

The general consensus appears to be that - We need more laws
to prohibit the importation, domestic manufacture,
supply, commercial possession, and prohibit advertising of non-
therapeutic and disposable vaping goods.

Stronger laws are necessary.

I am disgusted by this practice.
It is also definitely unhealthy.
Yet others may be just as disgusted by my own lifestyle.

I can pray for their souls and health,
I can pray for them to understand and reform their ways,
but I have no right to order them what to do or not to do,
nor to appoint representatives who would do that dirty job on my behalf.

I'm not interested in vaping.
People sometime try to get me to try it but I'm not keen.
I don't care for this fancy flavored fad.
I think theres probably more nicotine in vapes than cigarettes.

Dutton son.
I really liked that hypocricy.
Dutton wants 2 years jail for other peoples kids but he tells us that this is a 'private family matter'.

Beyond that, I'm not sure I blame the kid for taking drugs when his Dad is Peter Dutton.
I class Duttons kid as potential automatic high risk of drug use, just for being Duttons son.

I think we do need laws to protect our children.
The warnings of doctors who have to deal with
vaping in adolescents as patients should be listened
to, and action needs to be taken. That's why laws exist
in civilised societies.

Oh God. Here we go again. More disinformation from the government and various NGO's. More lies to support an alternate agenda. More examples of people creating a problem where none exists in order to justify their careers to solve a problem that isn't a problem. More examples of the perpetually gullible falling for the latest scare campaign.

Just some facts....

* the only real study into the health effects of vaping was done in Britain a few years back. It found that vaping was 95% SAFER than smoking. One of the authors later agreed that they only said 95% safer because no scientist ever wants to say 100% safer even though they found no adverse health issues.

* Most vapes sold in Australia don't contain nicotine. Quite how you get 'hooked' on them isn't explained.

* Nicotine isn't dangerous. Vaping nicotine is addictive but not dangerous. Indeed nicotine can be considered a beneficial drug is certain circumstances

* if nicotine is dangerous, why are nicotine patches and gum freely available off the shelf with no restrictions on age?

* Vapes contain a range of chemicals that, in quantity, are dangerous or linked to cancer. But as with all things, the poison is in the dose. H2O is dangerous at high enough levels. The chemicals in vapes are at such minutely small quantities that only recent technology is able to detect it.

* the fumes that vapers emit are the same as the fumes you see from artificial fog. If you've ever been to a show with artificial fog, you've inhaled the same stuff. But I don't see call to ban 'Les Miserable'.

* people who built a career around anti-smoking campaigns saw their raison d'être disappearing as smoking subsided. They then found a new reason to justify their existence. Some call it the "March of the Dimes Syndrome".

* as usual, when the facts don't stack up, the activists revert to the claim they are saving the kids. They aren't.

Unless your name is Google ... Stop acting like you
know everything.

Talking about gullible?

Who's a Trump supporter?

Get your megaphone ready.

Hi Paul,

Here's a link that may be of interest:

http://sbs.com.au/news/article/as-australia-faces-a-vaping-epidemic-this-is-the-warning-from-experts/aw5gwrsxa

Hi Paul,

We've all heard it before so many times.
Experts are on the take. They don't know
what they're talking about. Don't listen
to them. It's all "fake news!"

Listen to "Moe" instead!

I always get it right.

Zippity do dah.

"Unless your name is Google".
No. My name is DuckDuckGo. Anyone using Google is asking to be led down the garden path.

"Stop acting like you know everything."
Its not an act.... </grin>

It seems that Foxy has decided that she's sick of being made to look the fool so often and that's its better to just throw a tantrum. Probably a good call.

I couldn't fit the appropriate links in earlier but here are SOME of the science - ie not the propaganda - around this....

http://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2021-065997
http://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review
http://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a74ccd1e5274a3cb2867479/Ecigarettes_a_firm_foundation_for_evidence_based_policy_and_practice.pdf

Vaping is basically legal in places like New Zealand, the UK, the USA, Japan and most European countries. New Zealand halved its smoking rate following the legalisation and promotion of vaping. (Quick, pretend that's not true).

So many countries are fine with vaping but here we are weeping that the sky is falling. And the usual crowd buy it.

mhaze,

Don't worry.

That's the way - Aha Aha I like it!
Aha Aha!

mhaze,

Here's institutions that don't "buy it":

http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9001701/#:

There's still a few people in the US who prefer facts
to fiction.

And prefer the advice of medical professionals
to the self-proclaimed " astute observers."

But it's a choice, and of course people are free
to want to say - "I'm having what he's got."
And see what happens next - as it did with COVID
in the US.

"prefer the advice of medical professionals
to the self-proclaimed " astute observers.""

So I show multiple studies out of Britain performed on behalf of the British government, (eg Public Health England (PHE)), as well as' Office for Health Improvement in the Department of Health and Social Care' and another from King's College, London run over a period of 8 years, and Foxy, adopting her standard that if you don't want it to be true, it isn't....well Foxy just ignores it.

Then she gives us a report that she hopes will support her fantasies. Well if she'd read the report she linked (and it a safe bet she didn't) she see that this report has nothing to say about banning vapes.

What the research shows is that vaping in adults is largely safe and orders of magnitude safer than smoking. The research also suggests - nothing more than that - that vaping by kids might be harmful at the margins.

So the correct response to work harder to ensure they stay out of the hands of kids while letting adults make their own choices. That's what most countries in the world are doing. But here, the government, in the thrall of ideologues, has decided to go down a different path.

They continually say they follow the science. They are kidding themselves.

Most countries in the world treat their adults like adults. The authoritarians in Australia have a different view and their flying-monkey supporters are just fine with that,

Hi Foxy,

A story; There is a Vape Shop in spitting distance of my place, very close to a railway underpass, about 50 meters away. On several occasions I've observed school children in uniform, about 14 or 15 maybe younger, make a mobile phone call from inside the pedestrian tunnel, then what do I see, an employee from the shop, walk down to the underpass where the children are, the bloke is carrying a couple of boxes of vapes, the kids exchange money for vapes, they go off in one direction, the grub returns to his shop!

The cops say; "Can't do anything unless we catch them in the act." I'm sure I must be mistaken, but could the Vape Shop owner resemble David Littleproud leader of the National Party, for Dill Brain Davo, its all about free enterprise making money.

Dear Mr Mhaze Trumpster,

That's right like with your folk hero the Dangerous Doctor Donald you believe it all fake news, and conspiracy theories!

Her's a corker from mhaze; "Nicotine isn't dangerous" Well I hate to burst your bubble old salt, but NICOTINE is a deadly poison. The fact YOU consume a minuscule amount in your 60 fags a day doesn't make it any less poisoness, it just doesn't kill you straight away. Usually lung cancer brought on by the thousands of other carcinogens including tars, in your fags do that. Vapes will do it for you as well.

"Nicotine poisoning occurs when nicotine begins to exhibit more dire toxic effects on an individual." The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) warns that 50 to 60 milligrams of nicotine is a deadly dose for an adult who weighs about 150 pounds.

maze how many pounds do you weigh? 400?

Paul,

Ya dill. Yes nicotine is a poison if you take enough of it. Everything is a poison is you take enough of it - water, oxygen, the kool aid you imbibe.

But its not a poison at the levels that matter as regards vapes. You shriek in obvious terror that the CDC "warns that 50 to 60 milligrams of nicotine is a deadly dose for an adult". That's true. But that's if you drink the stuff. Not if you smoke it. Its impossible to get 60 milligrams just from smoking cigarettes and even more impossible from vaping nicotine juice.

If any of the rubbish you wrote was true then 3-pack a day folk would be keeling over left and right. But they don't because you utterly misunderstood (or misrepresented?) the science.

And speaking of misunderstanding, you say that "Vapes will do it for you as well" ie include tars in the mix. They don't - that's why the British studies said they are basically safe. Or did you, like Foxy, decide to ignore those studies because they said something you'd prefer to not be true?

If nicotine is so dangerous, why is it that anyone can walk into any chemist in the country and buy nicotine gum over the counter? You see, they want to scare you about this nicotine boogey-man and expect you to not notice that its freely available. Obviously, in your case, they're right.

Again, countries around the world allow vaping. Are their citizens keeling over left and right? New Zealand went all in on vapes because they save lives by getting people off cigarettes.

Only the authoritarians in the ALP want to dictate to its citizens on the basis that we can't make decisions for ourselves - or at least decisions the fascists in Canberra approve. I can see why you're on board with that type of thinking.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the story.

Australia's law reform bill regarding vaping has wide
support from the public health sector and is based on
evidence and research showing that preventing easy
access to vapes is essential to protecting the health
of young people.

Sydney University's researchers and so many other
medical and scientific professionals tell us that we
have a "uniquely Australian approach to regulating
vaping."

"The clear message is that vaping products cannot be sold
as a consumer good for recreational purposes. Instead they
are a tightly regulated therapeutic product available
only under strict conditions."

We're told that "the law does not criminalize individual
vape users but instead includes heavy penalties for
sellers of illegal vapes."

We're told that "any retailer found to be illegally
selling vapes from July 1st will be heavily fined and could
face jail time."

http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2024/06/25/no-more-recreational-vaping-for-australians-what-next.html#:

"We're told that " this.
"We're told that " that.

What we're really told is that the government thinks Australians are too stupid to make decision the authoritarians consider valid. We have to be treated like children and sent to bed with no sweets because we don't know what's good for us.

Its the same level of thinking that told us we were too stupid to be allowed to see video of the Lakemba stabbing - how did that work out?

Meanwhile, governments all around the world are allowing their citizens to make their own decisions. Some like NZ and the UK are even encouraging citizens to take up vaping in preference to cigarettes.

I prefer governments that treat their citizens like adults but I can see that some (no names mind you but Paul and Foxy are exemplars) some prefer to be led by the nose and told what to do because that's so much easier than thinking for yourself.

Hi Paul,

Good news from the Cancer Council:

"The Cancer Council has welcomed the vaping legislation
passed by the Senate. This will put an end date on the sale
of disposable non-therapeutic vapes in retail stores -
protecting the health of all Australians."

There's more at the following:

http://miragenews.com/cancer-council-hails-new-vaping-law-to-cut-1264396/

mhaze,

I know when I am getting to a Trumpster, out comes the crude and rude abuse...like Yabba on the hill, Ya Dill!

After claiming; "Nicotine isn't dangerous", the new low from Mr Mhaze Trumpster is this gem; "If any of the rubbish you wrote was true then 3-pack a day folk would be keeling over left and right. But they don't"

WELL THEY DO, visit your nearest crematory and you'll find hundreds of 3 pack a day fellas DEAD, DEAD 20 years prematurely due to that 3 pack a day addiction.

Question, As a young lad did you aspire to be the next "Marlboro Man" me thinks so. AND of course you believed BIG TOBACCO when it told you smoking was positively good for you. AND they had the "science" to prove it, after all they paid big bucks to get that "science".

"Five men who appeared in Marlboro-related advertisements — Wayne McLaren, David McLean, Dick Hammer, Eric Lawson and Jerome Edward Jackson, aka Tobin Jackson — died of smoking-related diseases, thus earning Marlboro cigarettes, specifically Marlboro Reds, the nickname "cowboy killers".

Mate, why didn't you take the advice of Dangerous Doctor Donald, and drink 'Pine-O-Clean during Covid?

BTW Not all poisons kill you, arsenic is a trace element in beer and wine, like arsenic, nicotine in small doses wont kill you, but it will contribute to general ill health.

"Vapes and e-liquids can contain a range of chemicals such as acetone found in nail polish remover, acrolein found in weed killer and 2-cholorophenol found in cleaning products and bug spray. Vapes come in a number of flavours such as blueberry or bubble gum that make them appealing." WOW mhaze it looks like your vapes have a million and one uses around the home! Killing flies, cleaning toilets. I hope you vape the blueberry flavour, at least when it kills you, your corps will smell sweet.

"WELL THEY DO, visit your nearest crematory and you'll find hundreds of 3 pack a day fellas DEAD, DEAD 20 years prematurely due to that 3 pack a day addiction."

But they didn't die of nicotine poisoning which was your original assertion.
Do try to keep up with the rest of the class.

If what you say about the dangers of vaping are true, why did the most comprehensive study ever done on them find they were 95% safer than smoking?

If what you say about the dangers of vaping are true, why does most of the rest of the planet allow it without the massive increases in deaths you're so afraid of? You're always going on about your NZ connections. Ask them if vapers are dying in the streets since they've allowed, even encouraged the use of vapes.

If what you say about the dangers of nicotine are true, why are we, including teenagers, allowed to buy nicotine gum off the shelf?

Hi Paul,

Nicotine gum is effective in helping people to quit
smoking cigarettes. Many people try to quit without
formal assistance. Tests have shown that the number
of people who quit increases with help. Over the
counter availability of nicotine gum has been shown
to confer significant public health benefits.

Yes Foxy, but, as usual, the logic eludes you.

Paul was saying nicotine is a poison. If its a poison it wouldn't be freely available to all and sundry. That it helps people give up smoking is true. That vapes help people give up smoking is also true. They do the same thing - give smokers a safe way to get nicotine without all the tars etc that cigarettes have.

But one, the gum, is promoted as a benefit. The other is banned and the chicken-littles of this world run is terror at the mere thought of it.

Countries like the UK and NZ have recognised that vaping is a health benefit and have allowed, even promoted, it. The ALP, controlled by the anti-everything lobby are doing the bidding of those who have no interest in helping people get off cigarettes. Yet they think of themselves as oh so moral.

Hi Paul,

We know that tobacco use is legal in Australia.
But, its supply and consumption is subject to
strict regulations.

Advertising of tobacco is prohibited. Plain packaging has
been introduced and smoking is banned inside restaurants,
bars and clubs, in cars with children and around many
public places such as near children's play equipment,
swimming pools, public transport and around public buildings.

Steps are being taken to try to help people kick the
habit. And as with alcohol and other drugs - there's
only so much that can be done. Still pointing out the
health benefits seems to be working in the case of tobacco.
Much has been achieved in a short space of time.

"Steps are being taken to try to help people kick the habit. "

But the most effective one is being demonised. NZ halved their smoking rates when they started promoting vaping. (I did mention earlier that the usual fools would hasten to ignore that and thus it has come to pass).

If you're an anti-smoking activist who has built a career on propagandising against cigarettes or an organisation dependent on funding from government to propagandise against smoking and big tobacco, the last thing, the very LAST thing, you want to see is an end to cigarette smoking. That would be the end of a lucrative career, the end of government hand-outs.

So of course you oppose the most effective anti-smoking measure found in the last decade. We've got to keep our phoney-baloney jobs.
http://youtu.be/uTmfwklFM-M

Did I get a harrumph from Foxy?

Hi Mr Mhaze Trumpster, I feel we are old chums now on this topic!

Sorry I haven't got back to you earlier, you give me so much to take in, it feels like I've swallowed literally a ton of cow dung from you, and that takes time to digest.

Firstly, "You're always going on about your NZ connections" no more so than you go on about your family in Borneo, btw how is Uncle Orangutan and family doing these days? That clears that up.

Now, "(Vapes are) 95% safer than smoking" The old argument, if something is really bad for you, so if something else is safer, therefore it must be good for you, not necessarily. BTW how does one measure safetyness as a percentage, got me on that one. btw, its safer, 95% in fact, to be run over by a single deck bus, than by a double decker....but I wouldn't recommend either.

"If what you say about the dangers of nicotine are true, why are we, including teenagers, allowed to buy nicotine gum off the shelf?" Why were people allowed to build houses out of asbestos including teenagers! That right, I forgot, vaping is 95% safer than chomping on lumps of asbestos.

All you are doing is trying to make your nasty product look good, and justify its use in society.

"BTW how does one measure safetyness as a percentage, got me on that one."

Well, if you really wanted to know you'd read the eight or so studies done by King's College and others on behalf of the various health departments in Britain what came to that percentage conclusion. Or you would if you were the slightest bit interested in the facts rather than the ALP propaganda... therefore you won't.

"you go on about your family in Borneo".
What the hell are you talking about?

More guff to deal with,

"NZ halved their smoking rates when they started promoting vaping" No they didn't promote vaping, they put a huge tax on tobacco products.

"the very LAST thing, you (anti-smoking) want to see is an end to cigarette smoking. That would be the end of a lucrative career, the end of government hand-outs. Oh no! Its those lefty/communists at work again, attacking good old Capitalists free enterprise. Trumpism at its finest.

BTW Mr Mhaze Trumpster, I watched those two old fools debate each other today. Your man Trump should be locked up in jail. Biden, he should be locked up in an asylum for old farts! Putin, Jinping and that crazy man in North Korea must be rubbing their hands with glee, watching that pair of idiots going head to head. A conversation between Putin and Jinping watching it all on telly; "Vlad"..."Yes Xi"...."See what democracy gives you!"..."Hummm, two old farts like that pair"..."Yes Vlad, democracy, its a waste of time!"......."I'll agree with that Xi, a waste of tim, not wanted in Russia."

"No they didn't promote vaping, they put a huge tax on tobacco products."

Paul, you just made that up. You'd best ignore this as well....

"Smoking and vaping policy were very similar in Australia and New Zealand until 2020 when the four major political parties in New Zealand accepted vaping as an important tool to accelerate the decline in smoking rates."

http://www.ash.org.nz/new_zealand_expert_advises_australian_policymakers_on_vaping_as_new_zealand_smoking_rates_fall_40_in_4_years_as_people_switch_to_vaping

Look Paul, I get it. You don't want to think you're being lied to and have no intention of checking the facts. That's OK, we're used to that from you and Foxy.

Even simple questions as to why most of the rest of the world are fine with vapes whereas we are treating them like mini H-bombs seems to be beyond your understanding. You don't even want to consider why that might be.

So be it. You've always been happy being lied to by your gurus and see no reason to change now.

Mr Mhaze Trumpster,

Your selective quote, ""you go on about your family in Borneo".
What the hell are you talking about?" Okay for the dummy, orangutans, they come from Borneo, to much for you to understand. Read in full, its a joke, in reference about you bring up my "NZ connections", but when you're out of it on vaping I shouldn't expect you to see the funny side of anything. BTW Vaping is it an upper or a downer for you?

Except you actually talk about your NZ connections and I've never mentioned Borneo. You might think its a joke, but you'd be wrong.

I can't help but notice that you didn't even try to support your fabricated claims about a tax and have continued to avoid looking at, let alone addressing, the facts and reports I mention.

Standard operating procedure.

Mr Mhaze Trumpster,

Don't you know anything.; "fabricated claims about a (tobacco) tax"

"To discourage smoking uptake among youth and encourage cessation, the NZ Government raised tobacco excise taxes rapidly, and in excess of inflation by 10% each year, between 2010 and 2020, making the real price of cigarettes in New Zealand, among the highest globally."

Duty on tobacco. The 2024 increase is 5.64%. attracting a duty of $1244.23 per kilogram where 1000 manufactured cigarettes has a tobacco content less than 800g per kilogram, rising to $1,773.02 per kilogram where 1,000 manufactured cigarettes has a tobacco content exceeding 800g per kilogram. Smoking tobacco, homogenised and/or reconstituted tobacco product with a tobacco content not exceeding 800g per kg, the duty is $1244.23 per kilogram rising to $1773.02 per kilogram for smoking tobacco, homogenised and/or reconstituted tobacco product with a tobacco content exceeding 800g per kilogram.

Bloody big tax in anybodies language.

"and I've (Mhaze) never mentioned Borneo" If my relatives were swing in the trees in Borneo, and picking nits off each other, I wouldn't mention them too often either. I do understand why you want to keep em' a secret!

I can buy tobacco down the road at the local shops for $275 a kilo, I'm told.
- That's $13.75 for a 50g pouch the government would charge $120+ for.

The government got so greedy stealing from people they priced themselves out of the game.
How they hell do they even know what smoking rates are, when everyone's buying the cheap stuff.
I know of people buying cheap imported packets over the counter for $7 each, not the $40 the government is charging.

" the NZ Government raised tobacco excise taxes rapidly, and in excess of inflation by 10% each year, between 2010 and 2020, making the real price of cigarettes in New Zealand, among the highest globally.""

We were talking about how the NZ government managed to reduce smoking rates by half after they changed their policies as regards vaping AFTER 2020. So of course, logic-challenged Paul tells us all about what they did BEFORE 2020.

I gave him the report which showed that smoking rates in Australia and NZ were roughly the same in 2020 and that the NZ rates are now half those of Australia following their promotion of vaping. But the report used big words and sophisticate maths and therefore clearly went over Paul's head.

There are numerous reports showing vaping is safe - Paul ignores it or perhaps doesn't understand it.

There are reports that policies in NZ favouring vaping are saving lives - Paul ignores it or perhaps doesn't understand it.

Countries all around the world allow their citizens to decide whether to use vapes or not - Paul ignores it or perhaps doesn't understand it.

Paul's gurus tell him there are vape monsters hiding under the bed - Paul wets his pants.

T'was always thus.

'nuf said. I've made my point. The thread started off with the usual suspects accepting every lie their gurus told them, and they now realise that the evidence proves these were lies.

Fin.

Only 5 posters interested in this.

The Forums very own Marlboro Man, aka Mr Mhaze Trumpster, presents "reports" financed by BIG TOBACCO done by "scientists" telling all the gullible that "vaping is good for you". A bit of deja vu there don't you think, just as BIG TOBACCO financed "scientists" in the 1950's and 60's telling all the gullible that "smoking is good for you".

As for tobacco tax in NZ, for 11 years the NZ government increased the tax on tobacco by inflation plus 10%, last year it was increased by the inflation rate of 5.64%, according to the Marlboro Man that's no tax at all. NZ has the highest tobacco tax in the English speaking world, and one of the highest in the whole world, Australia is not far behind. There was NO CAMPAIGN by the NZ Government to promote vaping as being good for you, or as an alternative to smoking.

ttbn, glad you are keeping count, did you ever land the job you said should be yours, FORUM MODERATOR.

Hi AC,

As I pointed out on another thread, the authorities only seize about 20% of the illegal tobacco smuggled into Australia, the other 80% is sold under the counter in drug shops (tobacconist), well, until the import criminals fire bomb their shop for non payment of "tax".

This ridiculous claim from the Marlboro Man;

"NZ halved their smoking rates when they started promoting vaping" NZ halved their smoking rates when they increased the tax exponentially on tobacco. As a consequence the claimed "safer" vaping and being cheaper was taken up by the nicotine addicted. The fact is those smokers from the lowest socioeconomic groups with the lowest incomes, they being the largest group of smokers in society, found the cost of tobacco products prohibitive and turned to the cheaper vaping alternative to get their daily fix. There has never been a 'Vaping is safe for you campaign by the NZ government'. The furphy that vaping was safe, was simply a lie promoted by BIG TOBACCO, the same grubs who have been purposely targeting children as customers. The problem for BIG TOBACCO is that their customers, like our forum friend the Marlboro Man, are literally a dying breed, so they have to target children to keep the cash flowing their way.

mhaze a question; If the government was to remove all tax from cigars, could we expect an increase in cigar consumption, and a corresponding decrease in the highly taxed cigarette consumption. AND would such a move prove that cigars are safer than fags? I'm sure you will say yes.

"Smoking and vaping policy were very similar in Australia and New Zealand until 2020 when the four major political parties in New Zealand accepted vaping as an important tool to accelerate the decline in smoking rates."

http://www.ash.org.nz/new_zealand_expert_advises_australian_policymakers_on_vaping_as_new_zealand_smoking_rates_fall_40_in_4_years_as_people_switch_to_vaping

Paul won't understand this because.... well its Paul!. But Ash aren't some pro-tobacco group. Their entire mission is to stop smoking..."Our mission is very simple. It is to a eliminate the death and harm caused by tobacco." they write favour of vaping.

Paul continues to pretend to not notice that almost the whole world accepts vaping. Its only the authoritarians in Canberra who fight it. But lets pretend that the whole world is wrong and Canberra knows what's good for us all.

Look Paul, I get it. You don't want to think you're being lied to and have no intention of checking the facts. That's OK, we're used to that from you and Foxy.

The stupid's express path to self-destruction is constantly made safe & actually boosts rather than diminish the numbers of the stupid !
No wonder the gene pool is not clearing up !

Marlboro Man,

Of course if you place a big tax on tobacco, and smokers see a cheaper alternative, in this case vaping, and if those who profit from vaping i.e. BIG TOBACCO cleverly market their deadly product as being "safe" then of course there will be a decrease in smoking and a corresponding increase in vaping, that stands to reason.

You fail to present any evidence that the NZ government actively encouraged people to vape. They facilitated people to vape, without actively encouraging them to do so. Show me evidence from the NZ government that they actively promoted vaping in society. I note you have shifted from "actively promoted vaping" to a new line of "vaping as an important tool ". You referring to ASH is not referencing the NZ Government, ASH is in their words; "Action for Smokefree 2025 is an incorporated society" The only ones actively promoting vaping as safe are your mates, the grubs from BIG TOBACCO.

Obviously you are either severely addicted to nicotine, and delude yourself into believing the deadly habit is safe, or you are a major shareholder in BIG TOBACCO, I tend to believe the former, you have a deadly addiction. As the heavily addicted Yul Brynner said shortly before he died from smoking related lung cancer; "DON'T SMOKE!"

"DON'T SMOKE!"
Paul1405,
Well, those words were utterly wasted in this, the nr one drug abusing Nation !
As things stand, it'd be best to just let them go for it, they'd be doing the rest of us a big favour !

Not a smoker.
Not a vaper.
Not a shareholder in any tobacco firms.

I just like presenting the facts.

You should try it some time.

Marlboro Man,

I expected you would rush to deny you smoke or vape, like the 7 day a week alcoholic, who claims to be nothing more that "a social drinker, who can give up at any time", the nicotine addicted are often in denial. I recommend the 'QUITLINE' to you before it's too late.

As for your claim that you present facts, NO YOU DO NOT. You made the claim that the NZ Government actively promoted vaping as a safe alternative to tobacco smoking, NO THEY DID NOT, you failed to provide a scintilla of evidence to back your claims, pointing to a private organisation 'ASH' as evidence, NO IT IS NOT. When I pointed to the fact the NZ Government exponentially increased tobacco tax, and by default increased vaping, you even tried to deny that. As I asked before provide evidence, was there a catchy ad campaign by the NZG encouraging people to vape, NO THERE WAS NOT. Did the NZG provide evidence that vaping was safe NO THEY DID NOT. You are simply full of hot carbon monoxide! DON'T SMOKE!

For crying out loud ! There's a way to filter the gene pool & some non thinking hangers on want to prevent it from happening ?

Marlboro Man,

"I (mhaze) just like presenting the facts."

When asked to provide evidence of your clam, that the NZ Government was promoting vaping in the community you failed to do so.... where was the ad campaign, where was the mass publicity from the NZG promoting vaping? When I said the NZG had exponentially increased tobacco tax, you denied that was the case, when its obvious by the fact NZ has the highest tobacco tax in the English speaking world. To give you a comparison a packet of 20 cigarettes in the US average cost $8, in New Zealand the same 20 fags costs $US22. This turkey claims there's not a high tobacco tax in NZ. Wow!

mhaze, how much do you pay for a packet of coffin nails? Maybe not that much, possibly you are into those cheap illegal fags smuggled in from Asia. hummmmm.

Marlboro Man,

3 tonnes of illegal tobacco has been seized in Victoria, think of how much dosh could have been made flogging that amount of harmless crap. AND wait there's more, $42 million of weed found in Queensland. Terrible, a decent criminal just can't make an honest living these day flogging harmless drugs like these and vapes, with its 1,000 chemicals, most carcinogenic, most not known to the user!