Indyvidual,

I don't understand who you see as "useless." Everyone
is capable of learning and achieving. I have a firm
belief in that. "useless" should not be part of our
vocabulary or thinking. People can and do surprise.
I could not try to dim someone else's light to make
myself shine brighter. I would try to enhance their
light to shine even more. But then I've been lucky
enough to have some excellent and inspiring teachers.

Dear Indyvidual,

«people, Leftists in particular, do demand & expect others to respect their 'Rights" & "entitlements".»

Indeed, it is wrong to do so, though not anywhere near on the scale of severity to what we were discussing earlier.

«That being the case gives or at least should give the provider Rights also, the "Right" to demand the provided for also contribute.»

Very true - so long as the one who was provided for was given the option to refuse that provision.

so long as the one who was provided for was given the option to refuse that provision.
Yuyutsu,
Under ideal conditions for individuals, yes ! When another force threatens or even invades a Nation with degrading the existing living standards then different issues arise. That's when conscription comes into play where everyone capable of defending the Nation they live in/off has a moral duty to help their fellow citizens to help defend the nation. Somehow I doubt that real Australian would seek refuge somewhere else but would chose to stay & do their bit instead. Australia's focus needs to be on the enemies already residing here. Europe is making moves now.

Dear Indyvidual,

«where everyone capable of defending the Nation they live in/off has a moral duty to help their fellow citizens to help defend the nation.»

No problem if you like to discuss morality and moral duties, that would be a change of direction and Hinduism has so much to say about it, including about the who, when and how, has a moral duty to serve their country (and it may not be as straightforward as you think).

Moral duties are personal - each one ought to perform their own moral duties, not others'.

The Bhagavad Gita says:

"It is far better to perform one’s natural prescribed duty, though tinged with faults, than to perform another’s prescribed duty, though perfectly. In fact, it is preferable to die in the discharge of one’s duty, than to follow the path of another, which is fraught with danger." [Bhagava-Gita 3:35]

Nobody can force another to perform their moral duties, simply because when one is being forced and physically goes through the motions of performing their duties without believing in them, without choosing to perform them of their own volition, that does not count at all as fulfilling their duties, that does not please God, that does not give them any merit whatsoever!

Forcing another to do something, even if doing the very same actions willingly would have happened to be the other persons' moral duty, is not only not doing the other person any favour, but is a form of violence, whereas non-violence in Hinduism is considered the first and foremost tenet of morality.

When forcing another to do what would otherwise been their duty, you harm them not only physically and emotionally (as the case may be), but also spiritually because by doing so you disturb their ability to choose the same actions willingly and gain their spiritual merit accordingly.

[continued...]

[...continued]

When an organised body, such as a state (but it could also be a family, a clan, a tribe, or a trade-union, etc.) forces its members to act against their will, sometimes even against their conscience and values, that detracts from the moral legitimacy of that organised body, and being illegitimate, I for example as well as other conscientious people, would refuse to serve it in its time of need, instead praying for its fall.

Consider carefully which could contribute more to your country: the forced use of kids as cannon-fodder (on top of the majority of young people who would happily volunteer because they share your cause), who will therefore hate you, who would not do their duties diligently and would be likely to rebel, sabotage your efforts and equipment, betray and discourage their volunteering companions and even side with your enemy, that along my curses and prayers for your country's fall - or instead my own good advice (being too old to fight in person, as well as the volunteering of others who are younger), moral support and prayers for your success... think carefully!

Moral duties are personal - each one ought to perform their own moral duties, not others'.
Yuyutsu,
Of course, no-one's saying otherwise apart from those trying to distort the issue. To have the sense of duty to help defend the nation that harbours you is not performing a personal moral duty to help others. It's a moral duty to defend the Nation & thereby everyone including yourself is benefitting. No such nonsense words like deprivation of liberties or forced boot camp etc etc. If people are not comfortable with doing their bit then they should not expect others to bow to their demands for their "rights" ! Many of us had a life of working in jobs we didn't like yet the taxes we paid are squandered on people who reject work on grounds of it being not what they want or are not capable of. That nonsense has to stop soon.