Banning symbols is a mixed bag.

Why only choose one select group?

In this case - it was announced that the state of Victoria
has become "the first Australian state or territory to ban
the public display of the Nazi symbols in recognition of its
role in inciting antisemitism and hate."

"Anyone who intentionally displays the Nazi symbol in public
will face penalties of up to almost $22,000, 12 months
imprisonment, or both."

This makes it a criminal offence for any person to intentionally
display the Nazi symbols and the Nazi swastika.

What about the communist hammer and sickle, red star, or the
communist flag?

Both the Nazis and the communists had committed unheard of
cruelties. Concentration camps - on both sides of the
front - operated at a high pitch prior to and during the
war years.

While the USSR policy of mass murder preceded that of Nazi
Germany, most notably with the artificial Ukrainian famine of
1932-33 the wholesale destruction of the Russian
peasantry, and later of the peasantry and intelligensia in the
occupied territories as well.

Stalin admired Hitler and initially the two worked hand in
hand. Therefore it is equally important to be aware of the
accomplishments of the Soviet secret police -who brought
death to at least four times as many as Hitler did in his
years as a leader.

The Nazis have been pursued all over the world for their
crimes, the communist criminals were allowed to go free.
They were in effect given tacit permission to continue
the operation of their concentration camps, to expand their
draconian system to include psychiatric wards, thereby
raising torture, suppression, and murder to a science.

We need only look at what's happening today in the Ukraine.

Communist symbols for many are also painful - and if we are
going to ban Nazi symbols - we should also ban communist ones.
Or it becomes extremely one-sided and selective. .

I oppose Nazism and its symbols.
I oppose Communism and its symbols.
Anyone who forcibly, by threat of prison and the like, orders others what to wear and what not to wear, is a step closer to both the above.

Dear Foxy,

It is all about the use of those symbols in our society. If Nazi symbols were kept to the memorabilia ranks this would now have been something that needed government intervention.

But they are being used by a certain hard right faction of Australian's to incite violence and hatred of others within our society, in acts our government, rightly in my opinion, has deemed incitement.

If similar communist symbols were being employed as incitement to violence and hatred in our country then I would be supportive of a ban being investigated for them as well.

As long as Palestinian symbols can be displayed in support of Hamas terrorists - and the distinction between Hamas and the people of Gaza is a figment of Leftist Western imagination - then it would be hypocritical to ban Nazi and Russian symbols.

After all, Hamas and Islam are the new Nazis wanting to kill Jews. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was among the first modern Muslims to be part of the Holocaust with his personal advice to Adolph Hitler. Islam has not changed its mind about Jews since that time. The Mad Mullahs are preaching anti-Semitic hatred in the Sydney mosques now, probably right at this minute.

Albanese hasn't done a thing about Palestinians in Australia screeching “gas the Jews”, when he has legislation to deal with hate speech and terrorism supporters.

Once again, Foxy proves herself to be a hypocrite and an unpleasant person.

I like Foxy's attempt to be consistent in the application of principles (even though I suspect her motives given her history).

Banning symbols is still affecting the ability of people on the multiple sides of an argument to present their case.

There has been long term bias in favour of the Communists and so banning their symbols would have less of an impact than banning other sides. Changing the momentum of the community is always confronting and controversial but if we do it to ourselves it is ok- but not if it is forced on us.

Society has been degraded to such a state that the institution of state and national government is no longer trusted. As John Galt says "get out of our way". Leave us alone to be free to create our own contracts and relationships with who we want.

State governments should pack up and disappear so we can create our own new institutions, tear down the shadow state controlled media (ABC), the shadow state controlled re-education camps (the University Academies, Managerialism), tear down the shadow state controlled secret police, tear down the insurgent commissariat of HR wokeist illegal politicized tyranny (Managerialism), things will get worse before they get better.

ttbn- Good point.

Radio National recently did a segment on how beneign and non-authoritarian Managerialism is- didn't mention once James Burnham's warning on the use of Academic Managerialism to achieve Dengian Communism and yoke business.

Dear Canem Malum,

«Society has been degraded to such a state that the institution of state and national government is no longer trusted.»

Excuse me - when were these ever trusted?

John Galt would never approve of states banning any symbols (yet you as an individual may ban any of them at any time on your own premises) - "sticks and stones can break my bones..."

We shouldn't ban the Swastika or Soviet symbols either, it's hysteria.
One important fact is that the swastika isn't used exclusively by the Nazis either.
It's actually a religious and cultural symbol.

If we recognise the right to religion, then we can't touch it.
If we don't recognise the right to religion, then we may as well ban all religions, for the amount of drama they cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

"The swastika is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures. In the West it is more widely recognized as a symbol of the German Nazi Party who appropriated it from Asian cultures starting in the early 20th century. The appropriation continues with its use by neo-Nazis around the world. It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism"

Obviously, this law has been brought by Jews.
I'd give them a choice, either accept that others have a right to use this symbol in the practice of their own religions, and if you deny them this right, then you are not allowed to practice your religion here either.

Point 2.

If we oppose Nazi ideology, (and I'm not the one making the rules here)
- Then stop funding Ukraine and their government officials and nationalists who sympathise with Stepan Bandera.

The golden seal of Ukraine derives from the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists.
The Ukrainian nationalists fought with the NAZI's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)

How many Azov Battalion members with NAZI tattoos are riding around Ukraine in Australian Bushmasters...
You can't ban something that Australian taxpayers are funding.

I used to play this game years ago.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1198194/mediaviewer/rm931219713/
It was a great game, epic battles 7.6 rating out of 10.
You would wish to either ban the game, or change every part of it so that it doesn't even resemble the same game or storyline anymore..

You wish to ban all video games that have anything related to WWII in it Foxy?
Lest there might be a NAZI or Soviet symbol?
Throughout my life, WWII video games have been some of the best I've played, this is fearmongering and hysteria.

Finally, we can all criticise the Soviets, but you should also remember one thing, if it wasn't for their sacrifice, you'd have grown up speaking German and reciting Mein Kamf.
The Soviets saved the world from the NAZIs, so choose one, but I'm not sure it's realistic that you get rid of both of them.

And as for the Soviets, (Bolsheviks) the higher up the food chain you went was a higher concentration of Jews.
People like Gulag Commanders were 96% Jewish.

I raised this discussion in an attempt to question
why only one select set of hate symbols should be chosen
to be banned. Why not outlaw the public display of ALL
hate symbols not only Nazi signs but also those used by
prescribed terror organizations.

And for that I'm an unpleasant person - being against all
hate symbols and having my motives questioned?

It seems that for some no matter what I try to do - or how I
try to do it - I can't do anything right. Or should that be
Left? I'm a Leftie don't you know. A narcissist. A hypocrite.

And here I am winging again.

It's all my fault!

That awful woman. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Now back to the topic.

What about other symbols of hate currently being
used in this country? Like the KKK symbols?
Hamas Flag? Islamic State? , Satanic symbols?
And the list goes on.

KKK symbols and demonstrations have been found
in public parks by Australian Rednecks - who gathered
in groups on sacred Aboriginal land.

Of course hate symbols of any kind is something
Australia should not shy away from but we need to make
sure that we get the legislation right to ensure that
Australia remains not only free and open but also a
safe country for ALL who live here.

"I raised this discussion in an attempt to question
why only one select set of hate symbols should be chosen
to be banned."

I think your question is valid in the sense that if we apply a rule to something then it should be applied equally.

"Like the KKK symbols? Hamas Flag? Islamic State? Satanic symbols?"

We consider the KKK as being racist and wrong for their attitude, mistreatment and the acts they committed.
Why is it that any minority group is allowed to congregate together, have their own culture and be proud.
But if white people were to prefer to only associate with other white people, then somehow we're horrible people for wanting more or less the same thing they do, prefer to associate with their own.
There's a show on sbs called 'Living Black'
If I created a show called 'Living white' there'd be hell to pay.
I'm just saying, if we're talking about applying things equally.

Hamas flag, well why are they terrorists?
- To enact a political policy where Israel can avoid negotiating a 2-state solution and can keep stealing land backed by Americas UNSC veto, while the Israel lobby owns the US congress?
Look at what Israel is doing, certainly no less evil than anything Hamas is accused of.

Satanic symbols.
I hate to say it, but this may come under freedom of religion.

I don't support the KKK, I don't want to do away with the indigenous, (like some states)
I don't support Hamas as I'm not Islamic, but I recognise Palestinians right to resist occupation.
Islamic State - No
Satan - No.
I don't support or adhere to any of these ideologies.

Hi AC,

Good questions raised. That's exactly why this
discussion was raised. We need to seriously consider
any legislation that's raised and also look at how
effective it's going to be. Will it really solve
the problems? We can't seem to think of anything
better than to demand more law, bans, and police
enforcement. I doubt if this will help solve the
problems.

I'm not sure what the answer is. There will always be
disaffected groups in our society. Banning one select
group over others is not going to solve the problem. It will
attract publicity. Give them a platform, and possibly
give them even more recruits.

The Swastika seemingly a symbol depicting an idealized "storm or cyclone" is also an ancient British symbol even China's Taoist Ying Yang may be related. The swastika with the right facing arms appears to represent "power" (sometimes manliness) and the swastika with the left facing arms appears to represent "change" (sometimes femininess) (Ying Yang appears also to have right and left handed forms).

Perhaps this is why in WWII the lightening bolt symbol was associated with the swastika and German elite special forces soldiers were called "storm-troopers".

The swastika seems to be an ancient symbol perhaps one even associated with the first writing or pre-written history. All organisations try to market their activities in a way that motivates it towards their goals.

The god Zeus carried a lightening bolt as a weapon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt
_______

Armchair Critic said "Finally, we can all criticise the Soviets, but you should also remember one thing, if it wasn't for their sacrifice, you'd have grown up speaking German and reciting Mein Kamf.
The Soviets saved the world from the NAZIs"

If the Communists didn't exist the Nazi's wouldn't have existed because Nazism was a reaction to Communism even though it came from Communism (Nazism "was a form of"/ "split from" Socialism). It appears that the Nazi's considered that Communism was part of a Hebrew multipronged strategy to gain power in Europe that had been in progress for 2000 years- in this sense the war and post war remediations could be considered as a battle between the Hebrew Nihilists and the Traditional Anti-Nihilists.

The Nazi's felt that they needed to extract the Nihilist Communists and hangers on "decisively" but the British felt that a more gentle approach was appropriate "indecisive"/ strategic ambiguity epitomized by PM Neville Chamberlain's approach.

Frank Kitson in Low Level Insurgency talks about communist strategy- communists terrorise the institutions by strike and fade attacks and then recruit the resultant crackdown disenchanted.

The reaction to terrorist attacks often means police and security forces will conduct house to house searches to find the terrorists- this results in abuse of the community- as a result the community will resent the institutions on mass. The communists effectively use the masses to attack their own institutions and replace them with communist equivalents. The police and security forces are a blunt instrument to use against an "intelligence war". The SAS use hearts and minds in order to get the locals on their side- they 1. bring a gift 2. talk about philosophy and 3. ask for information- they try not to threaten the locals. Ironic that the so called archetypical "notorious special forces" are more diplomatic than the police. In Japan and Britain the police know their communities- if something strange happens they know where to look.

Sometimes Communists don't need to actually conduct terrorist attacks they just need to make the community believe through propaganda that the institutions are repressive- in order for the community to be used to attack the institutions. What is legitimate institutional grievance??

In the 1890's Germany (and perhaps Lithuania/ Poland) seems to be the nation with the most Hebrew immigrants due to the recent Russian expansion and pograms. Essentially the Nazi pogram's were an extension of the Russian pogram's. (Many Hebrew's also migrated to the US during the 1890's. The 1920's saw the first generation of US Hebrew's influence. By WWII the US had tightened up on Hebrew migration due to the previous influx. Britain had seen several cycles of Hebrew migration already.)

In a sense both Germany and Britain both saw the Hebrew situation as problematic but felt that different solutions were appropriate- they both acted but in different ways. Remember WWII wasn't a war to "save the Hebrew's" it was a war to stop German expansion and to justify British and others authority over the WWI Treaty of Versailles

Foxy said "What about other symbols of hate currently being used in this country"

Answer- The "concept of incitement to violence" is different to the more recent and contentious "concept of hate". Apparently the KKK was created by the Southern US Scottish community if you believe the movie "Birth Of A Nation".

In the last 600 years there has been competition between Britain, France, Germany, and previously Spain and Rome. The Treaty Of Versailles was an example of this competition- sometimes perhaps other externalities have tried to exploit this enmity. The Treaty Of Westphalia (1648 AD) and The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest (9 AD) demonstrate key fault lines.

Dear Foxy,

«We need to seriously consider
any legislation that's raised and also look at how
effective it's going to be. Will it really solve
the problems? We can't seem to think of anything
better than to demand more law, bans, and police
enforcement. I doubt if this will help solve the
problems.»

Indeed, legislation never solves anything,
legislation itself is a form of violence -
can more violence solve the problem of violence?

Feel free to protect yourself when necessary,
using as much force as the situation requires,
but can painted pieces of cloth and paper injure anyone?

Symbols certainly can incite certain people into
violence.

Hate speech against a minority can have disastrous
results. There are historical precedents that show
that hate speech can be a precursor to atrocities.
Also as history continues to show hate speech
coupled with disinformation can lead to violence,
stigmatization, discrimination and large-scale violence.

If it wasn't for Russia we'd all be speaking German?

According to Western view:

"World War II is a conflict we won. It was fought on
the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima, through the
rubble of re-captured French towns."

"It was widely shaped by the steeliness of Gen. Dwight
D. Eisenhower, the moral fibre of British PM Winston
Churchill, and the awesome power of an atomic bomb."

The narrative is different in Russia where WWII is
called "The Great Patriotic War," and is remembered in
a vastly different light in which Putin glorifies.

http://independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soviet-union-helped-save-the-world-from-hitler-a7020926.html

How many troops died in WWII Foxy? US v's Russian
The answer may surprise you.

I believe it is pointless trying to ban symbols to correct an anger problem. We need to arrest the anger and hate in our community that any person shows toward a person or group. If a person expresses intention of hate or degradation of a person or group, that is the problem, not a symbol. Raising the fist in defiance or anger toward another needs to be arrested and reeducated in anger management. If a threat is raised it is that that must be dealt with.

Should the "Christian Cross" also be banned, as it has been under that symbol, millions have perished over the past 2,000 years. Ban the "American Flag" millions have perished under that symbol in the past 100 years.

It just goes to show that banning hate symbols is
really a mixed bag and where do we draw the line?
Education seems to be a key - especially in our
communities.

Hi AC,

Read the link I gave earlier.

The answer did surprise me.

But Russian lives have been sacrificed by their leaders
for centuries.

Hi Foxy,
Ah, I see you found it, I don't know how I missed that link earlier.

"But Russian lives have been sacrificed by their leaders for centuries."

I'm not in any way trying to defend the Soviets.
But I think in WWII they probably did the world a service with the Nazis.
This is one of the reasons Russia are very sensitive about the thought of Nazis and enemies on their doorstep.
They've paid a huge price several times before.

Hi AC,

I have a very close connection both to the Russian and
German people.

My beloved Gran was Russian. She taught me the language,
Taught me the old songs, myths, legends, instilled in
me the love of literature and Russian authors. One of my
daughters-in-law is of Russian ancestry. (The other
of German). My grandfather
was in the Tsar's army. My mum spoke Russian. My father
was fluent in German. So there's
a very deep connection with both.

It's the regimes that sucked. And for their own people.

There's an interesting link from The Sydney Morning Herald
discussing what banning neo-Nazi symbols would mean.
According to the author banning the symbols would give
them a platform, attract publicity, give them strength,
and the ability to attract more recruits. In other words
it would give them what they want. Including the headlines
they're after.

Whereas, leaving them alone would be the equivalent of
not paying attention to people carrying placards that read
"I'm a Moron!" No one would take them seriously.

Here's the link:

http://smh.com.au/national/banning-neo-nazis-will-give-them-exactly-what-they-want-20230607-p5deqx.html

Armchair Critic

"But I think in WWII they probably did the world a service with the Nazis. This is one of the reasons Russia are very sensitive about the thought of Nazis and enemies on their doorstep. They've paid a huge price several times before."

The Russian people suffered two catastrophic world wars with Germany in a little over 20 years. Millions upon millions of Russians died on home soil, the country was decimated, in WWII I think 20 million Russians perished. The Soviet regime had no option other than to create a buffer zone of vanquished enemies between themselves and the West, the Russian people demanded it. There was no way the Russians could trust the West, Russia can't trust the West today, look at Ukraine.

Hey Foxy,

Since we're talking about symbols

How about I put these 'Z's' into the thread

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Now, my question -
Would you support the government banning my display of Pro-Russian symbolism?

If so, (assuming you support banning Soviet symbolism) - why?
What would be the aim of banning my 'Z's'?

And how do you expect this all to work?
Police come and arrest me for posting a 'Z'?
Is this the world you want?

Also does anyone know the answer to this.
Lets say NAZI and Hamas flags are banned.
Is it also against the law to display them at home, for arguments sake not in a window where the public could see it?
(Not planning on doing it, just curious)

Hi Soap Box

"...in WWII I think 20 million Russians perished."
- might've been a few more...

"There was no way the Russians could trust the West, Russia can't trust the West today, look at Ukraine."
- The US going back on their word after the fall of the USSR to not expand NATO eastwards was a huge breach of trust.
What message did it send to Russia other than that it is still viewed by the West as an enemy?

Stephen F. Cohen: NATO expansion and Russia
http://youtu.be/mciLyG9iexE

Alastair Crooke: Does the West Believe it is Morally Superior?
http://www.youtube.com/live/nW_vxfYqURI

People need to go back and listen to what 'Old School' diplomats say.

I'm the only person who openly supports Russia on the forum.
I think it frustrates and annoys many of the others.
But we're a democracy and the others probably need to be reminded now and again that it means it's ok for people to hold differing opinions.

I'd be interested in knowing how Trump would handle the situation in The Ukraine and with Putin. I suspect that Trump might be able to "do a deal".

I do think that the Westminster System is morally superior to a Communist dictatorship- but Russia is less of a dictatorship now than it was- and the west is probably more of a dictatorship particularly under Democrat rule.

Dear Canem Malum,

«I suspect that Trump might be able to "do a deal"»

He probably would, a deal that would leave millions of helpless innocent Ukrainians under cruel Russian control.

The only deal I would accept, is to let each Ukrainian district have a free referendum (under UN/international supervision to ensure that it is indeed free) which all sides agree to respect, whether the people there like to be part of Ukraine, of Russia, or be independent.

«and the west is probably more of a dictatorship particularly under Democrat rule.»

They are both as dictatorial in their own ways.

Hi AC,

I do not support the banning of symbols. I thought I
made that quite clear. Because as I stated earlier -
where do we draw the line - in which symbols we ban?
That's why I asked - if we ban Nazi symbols, why not
communist ones or others like the KKK - and so on?

I object to just selecting one particular group of
symbols.

As for Trump making a deal with Putin? Trump will
do what he thought would be to his advantage.
And I'm sure that Putin would be able to manipulate
him. Trump only thinks of himself. And what's in it
for him.

These salutes are no different to the Black Power fist. In Australia the most serious is the “oi, oi, oi” because it’s pushing the bogan mentality which will eventually have consequences similar to all the aforementioned if education is allowed to fester in the present Petri Dish.

"I do not support the banning of symbols. I thought I
made that quite clear. Because as I stated earlier -
where do we draw the line - in which symbols we ban?
That's why I asked - if we ban Nazi symbols, why not
communist ones or others like the KKK - and so on?

I object to just selecting one particular group of
symbols."

No problems, sorry for assuming.
I know there's a potential issue of symbols causing incitement and division.

The problem with all this is once you ban one 'e.g. NAZI
Someone else will say hey - 'If we're going to ban this, then we aren't we banning that'
- And then the whole thing becomes a can of worms.

I do agree that you have to apply it fairly across the board.

Sometimes I think things sold with good intentions have the potential to not always result in a good outcome all around, generally speaking.

Trump stop the war?
Well we'll just have to see if he can win the election first.
I think he'll try to do a deal, and maybe the Democrats, some Republicans and the Neoconservatives will try to do whatever they can to prevent him doing so, but that doesn't mean Putin will be willing to give up much.

Russias goals are demilitarisation, denazification, and neutrality from NATO, and I don't think these demands are negotiable.
That's why they went to war in the first place.

Hi Armchair Critic,

The "Golden Arches" kill more people per year with heart disease, strokes, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, obesity etc. Lets ban those Golden Arches, and their leader Ronald McDonald, he don't fool me in his clown suit!

http://twitter.com/VigilantFox/status/1745507029895061830
Maybe they're in partnership with pfizer.

The pharmaceutical industry cares about keeping people healthy in the same way the military industrial complex cares about promoting world peace.

Soap Box, you do make wild statements without scientific evidence. You cannot be believed.
As I have said Society has to outlaw Public displays of anger In Australia, and reeducate in self control and peaceful group negotiation.

Hey Foxy,
If banning symbols is a way to stop incitement to conflict and violence;
Then why do we do about the Australian flag, as it now also fits into the same kind of category.

It's a massive can of worms one unleashes going down the cancel culture path.

Hi AC,

Banning the Nazi symbols or any extremist hate symbols
will not stop them.

We've seen this with Germany's long ban of public display
of the swastika and other Nazi material. The bans have done
little to stop right-wing parties such as ( AFD) -
Alternative for Germany, which includes far-right extremists
and who have MPs in government.

These racist ideas become "acceptable" when government
parties institutionalize them. Also banning symbols also
raises civil liberties and free speech issues.

It's interesting that government's on both sides bring in huge numbers of immigrants and when the people complain that isn't in their interest- the people are the bad racists- and in a so called democracy- so called the government of the people- but some people's ideas are more important than others.

Mammals and most animals are territorial. Let them have their ancestral territory. Let them take responsibility for their own excesses. Destroy the evil social engineers and stop the tyranny.

Indyvidual- Yes or the Communist Power Fist- sometimes even a left handed one.

The following may be of interest:

http://thesun.co.uk/archives/news/55750/their-royal-heilnesses/

Foxy,
That’s as petty as publicity can get ! There were millions who mimicked this salute. Take note of he emojis that are being used nowadays that are no less evil fostering.

Dear Canem Malum,

«Mammals and most animals are territorial. Let them have their ancestral territory.»

Individual mammals maintain their own territory, for no longer than their natural life, often for less.
Offspring do not maintain their parent's territory: instead, young males leave and establish their own territory, then females may join.

«Destroy the evil social engineers and stop the tyranny.»

Agreed.

The evil social engineers are those tyrants who prevent people from immigrating freely in the first place anywhere within God's land.

I think that Yuyutsu comes from a culture that sees the world very differently to what I see it. I can't see us as living together peacefully. Good fences make good neighbours.

Hi Foxy,
"The bans have done little to stop right-wing parties such as ( AFD) -
Alternative for Germany, which includes far-right extremists and who have MPs in government."

I'm not sure the German people could do much worse for a government than the one they've already got.
They allowed America to blow up the Nordstream pipeline and did not say a word about it, increasing the cost of gas by 4 times. Their country has become de-industrialised, the country passed laws preventing even the use of heaters in many places so Germans are freezing, and even if they were allowed to use them many can't afford it.
Meanwhile they're giving billions of dollars to Ukraine.
And their own farmers have started a massive protest becase they're sick of government policies against them specifically as well.
And they just announced they would support Israel in defending the charges of Genocide and Incitement to Genocide.
That government is most certainly not governing in the best interests of it's citizens, which is why AfD has gained a lot of support.
France isn't much better.
The Prime Minister gave his ex husband the job of Foreign Minister or something... if you can believe that.

Armchair Critic- Probably Foreign Affairs Advisor- all leaders bring in their own people. Sorry for not checking.

Indyvidual,

You have to look at the historical context in order to
try to understand.

For example King
Charles has a bloodline made up of German ancestors.
King Edward was traumatized by the murder of his
relatives - the Romanovs in Russia. Anti-communist
feelings were strong. The Nazis were out to win over
the British royals in those early days. Also when it came
down to the choice between communism and nazism - many people
chose nazism. . There's
more at the following link:

http://bbc.com/news/magazine-33594809

Most people today perhaps see German Nazi's in the context of death camps and Jews- something that wasn't an issue for external nations during WWII.

Or when British leaders were looking at whether German's should be allowed to re-occupy their traditional territories to the north. And whether they should enforce the recent provisions of the crippling Treaty of Versailles. As well as territory that the Russian's took from Lithuania during the late 1800's. Even today there are hang overs from WWI and WWII in Germany in regards to free speech and self determination and historical rights.

Interesting how perspectives can change quickly- but given that WWII was more than 75 years ago it's also interesting when perspectives don't change. You have to think "who makes these changes" and "who keeps them alive".

Virtually every culture tells a story about its
ancestry. Origin stories provide collective
accounts of where "we" come from. They also help
some lineages claim power over others.

The history of genealogy makes clear that stories
about ancestry can be instruments of exclusion but
where we come from can also be a privilege too.

Today, the study of genealogy is a very popular past time
for many people.

who keeps them alive".
Canem Malum,
Usually and, as has been amply demonstrated it’s the crowds of spoilt hangers-on !

Indyvidual,

Some people have a genuine fear of letting go.
They need a railing to hang on to, to feel
safe.

to feel safe.
Foxy,
By hanging onto the wrong rail & worshipping a fantasy pushed by morally bankrupt intellectuals ?

Indyvidual,

God gave us the power of choice.

Up to you which railing you choose to hang onto and feel
safe with. Many make the wrong choices in life,
as we all know. And blame others for it.

God gave us the power of choice.
Foxy,
Perhaps but the stupid/greedy are dragging us down with them because the successfully indoctrinated intellectuals have been allowed to establish a literal monarchy.
I mean, if you’re not one of them i.e. you’re one with common sense, you’re instantly an outcast !
Wokeism should be banned not some gesture from so long ago. The hypocrites make millions from the war movies & the Nazi salutes !

Indyvidual,

Escape what is,
let go of what is not.

Foxy,

I agree with you the hammer and sickle are both symbols of hate and have no part in modern society.

shadowminister,
I think you’d find that the $ symbol has been the cause of more misery & mayhem than all other symbols combined !
Perhaps it should be banned first.

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

“Francisco’s Money Speech”

by Ayn Rand
"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?"

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/a/atlas-shrugged/summary-and-analysis/part-2-chapter-10

The sign of the dollar literally stands for a free country's currency. Here, it makes the deeper point that the mind is the faculty responsible for the creation of wealth, and the mind must be free.

Some believe that Ayn Rand took many ideas from Nietzsche..
See Kaplan's analysis of Nietzsche's Geneology Of Moral's and the Slave vs the Knightly Code in the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2F-T0sJfMQ

Canem Malum,
Entertaining but no mention of the real base evil-greed !

The truth is not for all men - only for those
who seek it.
(Ayn Rand).

Foxy,

I would never have pinned you as an Ann Rand fan, especially as everything she writes rubbishes the socialist values you so desperately cleave to.

Shadow Minister,

That just goes to show that the problem with
assumptions is that we believe they are the
truth.

Most people can and do surprise us. Most of us are more
than one dimensional. I suspect, even you.

As for Ayn Rand? One of my favourite books was
"The Fountainhead.

Foxy, I would never have pinned you as an Ann Rand fan, especially as everything she writes rubbishes the socialist values you so desperately cleave to.

Posted by shadowminister

Answer-

Here's my perspective- amateur psychological analysis...

1. We are all the people we think we are- In Foxy's case "a small L liberal (Liberal Party Left) supporter". She see's moderatism as the answer to the complexities of the world- rarely acknowledges the Overton Window and it's distortions caused by the Communists.

2. And the person that others see- In Foxy's case "a useful Socialist idiot" that doesn't realize the origins of her ideas- despite her and her husbands education. Many useful Socialist idiots follow Socialist ideas seemingly to protect themselves and their positions in society- try not to study things too deeply- or ask difficult questions. Can't really blame them for that- but extortion has a standard path that sucks in everything. Sometimes you have to fight from the shadows. We have to assume that those in The Matrix are compromised and potential agents. And it's harder for those of another culture to understand the harm they do to ours- if we don't protect our interest no one else will.

As Foxy has indicated her ancestral line has been damaged and she has been separated from her homeland and so she denigrates those that seek to protect theirs- perhaps a form of sub-conscious envy- and predisposes her to Socialist "open society" principles. My answer is that it is possible to recreate an ancestral line over many generations. Some are overwhelmed at the size of the task. At least she still interacts with the Lithuanian community- hopefully so does her offspring. Some would say that her bias towards the Lithuanian community is a form of racism- but I don't think that this is necessarily bad

Canem Malum,

Trust me - as you get to know me I just get
more astounding, surprising, breathtaking, stunning,
astonishing, amazing, and perplexing.

I could choose to comment on other more esoteric aspects- but it's better to focus on the straw-man.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/ralph_waldo_emerson_103408

Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Canem Malum,

Ralph Waldo Emerson quotes?

How lovely.

There's so many appropriate ones to choose from.

Enjoy this one. It's so suitable.

"People don't seem to realize that their opinion of
the world is also a confession of character."

Know this"

Some people will not hear you regardless of how much,
how loud, how truthful, how profound you speak.
Wish them well and walk away.

In this case your Emerson quote is probably better than mine- even though mine is more well known- but I would substitute the word "character" with "identity" as the broader term. Either way we both stand on the shoulders of the giant Emerson in this case- though I'm in disagreement with his apparent "transcendentalist universalism".

http://www.britannica.com/event/Transcendentalism-American-movement

Know this"

Some people will not hear you regardless of how much,
how loud, how truthful, how profound you speak.
Wish them well and walk away.

Posted by Foxy

Answer- Yes

Wish them well and walk away.
Foxy & Canem Malum,
A bit difficult on an island !

Indyvidual,

Private and public transport is available.

Take care Indyvidual.

Indyvidual,

You certainly need to be careful.

Never sing in the shower
Singing leads to dancing
Dancing leads to slipping
Slipping leads to paramedics seeing you naked

So remember be careful and never sing in a shower.

So remember be careful and never sing in a shower.
Foxy,
Thanks for confirming what I have long hinted at.

Canem Malum,
Hopefully integrity will a get a chance next election.

Sometimes the only thing we can say is:
"REALLY?"