Dickie to base.......I read you Spanky.

Touche Belly!

A thought for the day:

“Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"

Priest: "No, not if you did not know."

Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

CAKERS.......

sorry to bore you to tears mate..but I have to reject the 'just the usual theological' thing...

I gave you some very well documented reasoning, and provided sources.
I know it's not 'friday night with the fish and chips' reading.. but it is a serious issue.

You suggested it did not answer Bellies question...but think.. If I came to you with the

-Telelogical argument
-Argument from design
-cosmological argument
-Moral argument
etc etc......

you and about a hundred others would be clawing your way up my leg with bared teeth yelling "Those arguments have been debunked ages ago"....(my cat does that...without the speech bit :)

I hope you will revisit what I presented..and look at it in detail..as an alternative to the 'hackneyed' arguments/proofs... and see what the situation is.... it's quite compelling from an evidentiary point of view.

The ultimate evidence..is the Resurrection of Christ. Best argument of the lot. But evidence for 'that' evidence ? is...the Gospels....
so it leads to the obvious issue of ....'reliability' of those as sources.
Paul had it well nutted out.
Resurrection.. we have hope...
No Resurrection..

1Cor 15:32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die."[

Unsurprisingly Boaz, your "argument" falls at the first fence.

>>I gave you some very well documented reasoning, and provided sources.<<

But Boaz, using the gospels as your source is simply providing a circular reference.

Let me explain.

If I were to tell you that the earth was at the centre of the universe, you would tell me I'm crazy - despite the fact, incidentally, that your religion clung to the theory for a very long time. In support of my arguments I would of course point you to the works of Plato, Aristotle, Ptolemy etc., who produced some compelling fictions, based upon what we now know to be a hollow lie.

Each time you challenge my logic, I simply point you back to the same material, with occasional diversions into Tycho Brahe etc.

Now, feel free to scoff. But this is precisely how I see your reasoning. Whenever it is pointed out to you that, for example, there are absolutely no contemporary references to the life of Jesus, it takes you but a millisecond to refer me to another part of the gospels, as if that is the most incontrovertible truth available.

Does this resonate at all?

So, when you say stuff like:

>>Acts 16 begins with an account of Pauls journey...."He" came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived" Verse 8 says "So THEY passed by Mysia and went down to Troas." verse 11 says "From Troas WE put out to sea and sailed straight for Samothrace That is the point where LUKE begins to accompany Paul...in person. 2/ and 3/ In order to validate this claim, you would all need to have a read of say Romans.. and get a feel for Pauls 'theology' and then.. read Lukes Gospel.. and compare the two documents.<<

... it comes out as the most incomprehensible gibberish. Statements like these do not, and cannot, form any component of a proof, of any kind. Nor do they, as you would have us believe, justify your claim to have given "very well documented reasoning, and provided sources""

Boaz,

What if the God or Gods of Indigenous Societies teach via their oral traditions ,that if you behave and don't cause trouble and respect their teachings, you too WILL get to "Heaven".

Just how will they fare today in your world of Religion and Salvation , War and Peace ?

What are their chances of living in Your Heaven that you say is the ONLY Heaven?

Will your God say "No Folks - You will have to convert and read the Bible to join Me"!??

Perhaps he might have to have a yarn to that old crew across the street that have been there for thousands of years to find out what THEY are on about .

The missionaries go forth to Christianize the savages - as if the savages weren't dangerous enough already!

It appears the only time atheist go to Church is for the funeral of a friend or family member. Hence they conclude Christianity is all about death and the anxiety death causes. I only wish they had a balanced view of life. Christianity is about living life to the max, not about cringing in fear.

Death is a natural part of life as Solomon states in Ecclesiastes 3:1 - 9 "1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven: 2a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

Paul states the fear of death is unforgiven sin. The NT teaches a spirit of fear is bondage and the Spirit of Christ frees us this bondage [Hebrews 2:15; 2 Timothy 1: 7].

The Christians I admire are the ones who take risks for the blessing of others. Like a 26 year old girl from my Church who trained in physiotherapy practise who a month ago left to work in a hospital in India with patients with severe trauma injuries.