The current frenzy is all about UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres speech at the UN Security Council yesterday, they are all losing their minds over it.

The speech is here:
http://media.un.org/en/asset/k12/k124fg2agb

Israeli Ambassador to the UN stated:
http://twitter.com/giladerdan1/status/1716837646813614354
"The @UN Secretary-General, who shows understanding for the campaign of mass murder of children, women, and the elderly, is not fit to lead the UN.

I call on him to resign immediately.

There is no justification or point in talking to those who show compassion for the most terrible atrocities committed against the citizens of Israel and the Jewish people. There are simply no words."

- How do Israelis have the gaul to say such things after their reprisal attack; like somehow they think that with US backing they are immune to any criticism and penalty and free to do what they do, like the rest of the world can't see it.

There are no words to describe what I'm seeing on TV and Twitter
Have they lost all touch with reality?
I know they lost a lot of people and have a reason to be angry and a need to do something about it, though some of their narrative doesn't stack up.

[It seems extremely likely to me they allowed the attack to happen on purpose and their is witness testimony that at least some of the dead Israelis were killed by their own, as well as that some of the hostage takers were not acting like animals as we are lead to believe they were.]

What on this earth do they think would make their own reprisal attacks acceptable?
Imagine if apartment buildings full of people were being dropped by missiles in Australian cities.
Do they think were incapable of putting ourselves in other peoples shoes?
Do they think we can't see what they're doing?

Hi Armchair Critic,

Collective blame and collective punishment should have
a special resonance for Jewish people. Throughout their
long history, Jews have continually been scapegoated for
any number of real or imagined crimes, up to and including
the killing of Christ.

It's therefore surprising to see a similar argument now
being used as a stock response of - "Blame the Arabs."
This has now become a useful catchcall for Israel and
its staunchest defenders.

We hear - "The Arabs don't want peace." "The Arabs want
to drive the Jews into the sea." "The Arabs use children
as human shields." "The Arabs won't uphold their side
of the deal."

And wars, acts of terrorism, and craven political
decisions made by corrupt governments or individuals are
attributed to entire ethnic groups.

This impulse of collective blame will continue unless
maximum pressure is applied for changes to be made by
powerful nations of influence. Supporting this situation
with financial and military aid won't help to bring
anyone to the table. And applying maximum pressure needs
to be done and certain conditions applied.

Paraphrasing Gold Meir's supposed words:

"There will only be peace when BOTH sides love their
children more than they hate us."

I'm all argued out.

This conflict is so depressing.

I saw a placard recently that read -

" WE CAN'T BOMB OUR WAY TO PEACE!"

That sums it up.

Even if Israel wiped out Hamas, another movement would
take its place. Middle Eastern Studies experts tell us
that this is not a military issue but a historical one
that you can't solve with weapons only with dialogue
providing maximum pressure is applied to both sides.

Many feel that the West is responsible morally and
ethically for this conflict and it needs to seriously
solve the problem through diplomatic and political
dialogue to create a balance of power between the two
sides and to ensure BOTH sides compromise.

Thanks to everyone who've contributed to this discussion.
I look forward to our next one.

Hopefully a resolution to this conflict will be found soon.

AC writes "Bottom line is that no-one has yet shown anything [about the Gaza hospital blast] that is 100% conclusive, which means we're all really just speculating."

You're right. Its only 99% conclusive that it was a failed Hamas rocket. And you'll hang onto that 1% doubt 'til your dying breathe.

"Honestly I don't know why you two keep going on with it."

Well because its a perfect example of your, and others here, gullibility. You fell for the Palestinian lies which is one thing, but then failed to learn from that. Oh lookie here "It's last weeks war news, and about 4000 Palestinians dead ago.". Again you just take the Palestinian claims at face-value without the slightest hesitation. Its analogous to the Lavrov claims you fell for a few months back. Having been taught by me that these were complete fabrications, you just moved onto believing the next set of rubbish claims. That's why the hospital story is an important learning moment, but only for those who want to learn.

SR again tries to defend Hamas by talking about Fatah....

"What an absolutely preposterous claim and one that completely ignores the fact that Fatah in the West Bank recognises Israel's right to exist, works closely with the Israeli government on a range of matters including security yet;

They do not have a prosperous state of their own
They are not free
They don't have decent jobs The average daily wage in the West Bank is $32 compared to $82 in Israel.
They mostly don't have decent homes and those that do face eviction at the whim of the Israeli government.
They most certainly aren't able to travel wherever they like.
They really don't for the most part have a decent life."

Most of that is true. But, praise be to allah, their leaders are fabulously wealthy and live the high life. And where did they get their fabulous wealth? By siphoning off the aid funds that were supposed to be spent on the so-called Palestinian people to provide jobs and housing and water and a decent life.

Just like the Hamas leadership who currently whoop it up in Qatar while their subjects suffer the consequences of their leader's avarice.

You don't want no pie-in-the-sky when you die.
You want something here on the ground,
while you're still around.
(Muhammad Ali).