Many of us just could not believe this morning's news.
Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories are
reeling from the most serious escalation between the
Jewish State and the Islamist group Hamas to date.

Prime Minister Netanyahu declared war as at least 250
Israelis were killed and more than 230 Palestinians died
in an airstrike launched in response.

After a surprise Palestinian attack on the morning of a
Jewish holiday led to hundreds of deaths, the seizure of
Israeli hostages it has now sparked fears of a
regional escalation.

Things are looking very bad.

It appears that this new fight could be just the beginning.

What will Australia do?

Should we get involved?

There has been an overwhelming international response
from countries around the globe who are all standing with
Israel.

Our PM and Foreign Minister, as well as the leader of the
Opposition have all condemned the surprise attack and stand
with Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself is the
general consensus.

There's always going to be conflict there.
Both sides are religious oriented and there will never be a compromise.
No point whatsoever in sending our men and women into harms way.
Zelensky is going to be angry it's not all about Ukraine anymore though.

5000+ missiles launched, IDF hostages taken and a nuclear power plant hit.
I think the bigger question here might be 'Is the conflict unprovoked?'

Armchair Critic,

I have to get more detail as to why this happened so
I can't answer the question you've asked. Hamas is
considered a terrorist organisation - and I'm sure that
there will be a great deal of condemnation for its
actions.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you for the concern.

A year ago, nobody could believe such a thing could happen, but this surprise attack and war was made possible only due to Israel's internal weakness and disintegration.

Specifically, three things gave Hamas the courage and will to attack:

1) As a consequence of Netanyahu's "judicial reform", many key military reservists, including pilots, strategists, commanders, doctors, intelligence experts and former generals, refused to continue volunteering (they cannot be compelled to serve due to their age) in the service of a non-democratic government. Morale similarly dropped among those who are legally unable to quit the army. Israel's army admitted that the army's preparedness for battle is being compromised as a result.

2) Ben Gvir, a disgusting Nazi MK whom Netanyahu, in order to form a coalition, was forced to include in his government as "internal security" minister, unilaterally and vengefully decreed a series of worsening the conditions of terrorist prisoners, such as not allowing them to bake their own bread, reducing family visits to once every two months instead of every one month, and recently breaking their autonomy and dispersing them into solitary confinement in different prisons. We know that Hamas is extremely sensitive to the conditions of their prisoners, so they felt they had nothing to lose.

3) Israel's police forces were stretched thin between handling mass demonstrations, protecting politicians, rising criminal murders in Arab towns and villages, and forking out new troops to safeguard the West-Bank settlers and support their pogroms there as they became bolder and bolder.

I really cannot see how Australia could possibly help Israel militarily, logistically or medically as Israel has more than enough and much more than Australia in these respects. If you would like to help, then please think of ways to stop this corrupt Israeli government from attacking and weakening its own population.

---

Dear Critic,

Yes I read in horror about all the other news, but can you please tell me where did you read about an Israeli nuclear plant hit?

Yuyutsu,

Thank you for the information. It was most helpful.
I think that unless you live in Israel or at least
visit it - none of us can really begin to understand the
situation there.

What I find unfair is that The Law of Return states that
any Jew , born anywhere in the world, can go and live in
Israel. No Palestinian can. To me that is wrong.
I think that people
who go to visit Israel should also visit Palestinian
areas as well -
and see how Israelis treat the Palestinians.
And whether they think this is acceptable.

My heart goes out to everyone who is suffering in these
appalling conditions. I can only hope that sooner rather
than later - both sides will be able to sit down and reach
some sort of compromise. However I don't see it happening
any time soon.

Hi Yuyutsu,
"Yes I read in horror about all the other news, but can you please tell me where did you read about an Israeli nuclear plant hit?"

- I didn't read about it, I saw footage of a building with several plumes of smoke rising, and they said in the video it was a nuclear plant.
I'll have to re-watch half a dozen videos or so to find it again.
Gimme half an hour and hopefully I'll have found the right one.
I'll post the details as soon as I find it.

Hi Yuyutsu,
The video I watched where I got the info, well I think the youtube content creator was mistaken.
He said it was a nuclear power plant, but I think it was in fact footage of the Rutenberg coal fired power station which had been hit.

Apparently 3 missiles were fired at Dimona, 2 fell in open areas and one was intercepted, so just to correct my earlier comment;
- It seems that no nuclear plants have actually been hit.

If you watch the video below and skip to 10 minutes 00 seconds, you'll see the information I based my earlier comment on;
Emil accidentally said 'Nuclear power plant' and showed footage of a coal plant.

Israel declared WAR. Israel attacked, responds militarily. 22 people dead, and at least 545 injured
http://youtu.be/CUmBTbrNkFo

Yuyutsu

A couple of points to your post:

No condemnation of HAMAS attack and,

It’s ALL the fault of an evil Netanyahu lead government that should not exist!

Often I can only view your falling over the enemy line as Antisemitism.

You’d recoil in horror at my suggestion, but sometimes politically naive misses the point.

The news is currently showing Israelis fleeing from Palestinians, 53 of whom have been kidnapped by the terrorists.

It's well past time for Israel to wipe these thugs out once and for all. Netanyahu is calling it war. The enemy will "pay an unprecedented
price". Thex U.S is backing Israel. Albanese has condemned the attack.

Dear Yuyutsu,

I think you can add to your list the repeated storming of the Al Aksa mosque by ultra right settlers over the last few days. A provocation that they knew was likely to garner some response. Horrific for civilians on both sides.

I've taken Miriam Margolyes book, "This much is True,"
from my book shelves -
to refresh my memory of what she wrote about Israel.
I remember reading it ages ago and being impressed,

The following bits are appropriate to the current
situation:

"The appalling acts of Palestinian and Arab terrorism
are not ignored by me. I loathe them and will never
defend such things. Their cruelty , insanity and
continual murder are facts. But ask yourselves: Why?
I don't acknowledge the claims of history. I care about
now, the present. That land must be shared, people
must be treated equally."

" It is possible if the will is there, if the Diaspora
Jews brought pressure to bear on the Israeli government
attitudes would change."

Unfortunately I can't see that happening anytime soon.
US President Joe Biden has come out strongly supporting
Israel as have many world leaders.

I've seen a lot of images of dead soldiers in the war between Russia and Ukraine, (Too many) but I have to tell you there's some real nasty stuff going on between Israel and Palestinians right now.

I've seen some very disturbing images today.
My only hope is that all this shocks people into understanding that war is horrible, and diplomacy even if it means compromise is the only way to stop the carnage.

But that said I don't know if there can ever be peace between these two religious groups.
It's like a never ending holy war.
It seems that this is just going to keep happening every few years like a vicious cycle.

As much as we see images of Israeli citizens on the bad end of the stick today, I'm sure that there's plenty of things we don't see that lead to this situation.

There's never going to be and end to the conflicts unless we are actually honest about all the facts.
If you want peace, you really need to put yourself in your adversaries shoes and see things from their point of view.

You can all say what you want about me for saying this;
I'm sure some will imply that I'm defending the Palestinians, but really I'm just trying to shine light on the things that lead to the conflict in the first place.
If people can't be honest about that, then history will only continue to repeat itself.

Footage of Hamas thanking Ukraine for the supplied weapons
http://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1710928745878495427

Hi Yuyutsu,
Do I remember correctly that you supported the return to the 1967 borders.
If so, it's interesting that the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has come out and made a statement saying exactly that.

http://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710690300765585583

Russian Foreign Affairs Ministry:
"We call for an immediate ceasefire and a peace plan based on the establishment of an independent Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital"

Ttbn

You totally misunderstand the situation.

#Thex U.S is backing Israel. Albanese has condemned the attack.#

Every death in Israel can be laid squarely at the feet of the US.

Australia desperately needs to escape the death grip of this US monster!; we are cattle lined up in the crush before the slaughter man.

Dear Foxy,

«What I find unfair is that The Law of Return states that
any Jew , born anywhere in the world, can go and live in
Israel. No Palestinian can. To me that is wrong.»

But not more wrong than Australia selecting who may and who may not enter this continent.
To me, the larger the area into which people are not freely admitted, the more wrong it is.

«I think that people
who go to visit Israel should also visit Palestinian
areas as well»

Would you risk it personally?

Anyway, people don't normally go "to visit Israel", they go to visit particular family members or friends and/or to see particular places.
At present, thousands of tourists are stranded in Israel and cannot return home because nearly all airlines cancelled their flights to Israel.

«and see how Israelis treat the Palestinians.
And whether they think this is acceptable.»

You don't need to take such risks, you don't even need to get off your sofa: don't we already know that the treatment of SOME Israelis is unacceptable? But can we do anything about it?

«I can only hope that sooner rather
than later - both sides will be able to sit down and reach
some sort of compromise.»

It is naive to believe that there are only two sides to that story: both societies are badly fragmented and cannot even reach peace within themselves. That is why they need to sell wars to their own people, to keep them together.

«However I don't see it happening
any time soon.»

Not until you can address and handle their internal divisions!

Dear Critic,

Thank you for getting back to me about the hit on Rutenberg power station. That was openly reported on Israeli news.

«Israel declared WAR. Israel attacked, responds militarily. 22 people dead, and at least 545 injured»

So far Israel reports about 600 Israelis dead, 2048 wounded and about 100 kidnapped to Gaza, including whole families with children. Footage showed Gazan children beating a small kidnapped Israeli boy in order to watch and laugh how he calls out "Mommy" in Hebrew.

«But that said I don't know if there can ever be peace between these two religious groups.
It's like a never ending holy war.»

None of them are religious, even while they conveniently claim to be. Please don't let them fool you like that!

«Do I remember correctly that you supported the return to the 1967 borders.»

Yes, and I still wish so.

That 1967 occupation corrupts Israel from within and is the root of Israel's troubles and present implosion.
Leaving these cursed lands is in Israel's best interests, regardless of what happens on the other side of its border.

---

Dear Dan,

«It’s ALL the fault of an evil Netanyahu lead government that should not exist!»

It is a fact that they slept on guard and failed to see the signs until the terrorists were inside Israel. And yes, this was because their focus of attention was directed at their inner enemies/rivals, not at Gaza.

---

Dear SteeleRedux,

«I think you can add to your list the repeated storming of the Al Aksa mosque by ultra right settlers over the last few days.»

In my personal estimate that was just a pretext and not Hamas' real motive.

"It is a fact that they slept on guard and failed to see the signs until the terrorists were inside Israel. And yes, this was because their focus of attention was directed at their inner enemies/rivals, not at Gaza."

And of course Israeli treatment of the Palestinians over the past decades had nothing to do with it.

Another senseless bloody war!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgXNVA9ngx8

What Hamas is doing is sickening. The deliberate massacre of women and children is a crime against humanity that has no equal even by the Russians. What is also sickening is the antisemite apologists in this thread who are trying to justify Hamas's actions.

These animals in Hamas have committed such a horror, that pretty much any retaliation by Israel will be justified. What is certain is that there will be a massive retaliation and I am guessing a complete re-occupation of Gaza and the elimination of anyone connected with Hamas.

Then there is the idiot who takes a Twitter posting of a video clip showing some weapons with a voice-over as proof that Ukraine supplied Hamas with its weapons. What can I say.

Oh Puleeze, get off it!
Reading your tripe is as bad as hearing Hitler was misunderstood in his treatment of the Jews.
Try telling the truth for once without the usual antisemitic tripe.
The Palestinians, the Gazans in particular, are being systematically stripped of any life with dignity and you expected them to go to their 'gas chambers' without a fight.
Let's see when the good ole Aussie myth of 'defend the rights of the under dog' kicks into gear, or was it always a myth.
Methinks it was and still is.

"Special" Devilry,

More antisemitic drivel from you. An armed rebellion is one thing the deliberate massacre of women and children and desecrating their corpses is a level of debauchery that only sociopaths could defend.

If Hamas's objective was to generate sympathy and support for Israel while simultaneously painting themselves as merciless savages, then they nailed it. When the retribution from the Israeli army comes there will be little to no sympathy for their plight.

The comparison to Nazis is closer by far to Hamas than to the Israelis.

Yuyutsu

You should just stick to your spiritual life, you’re much better at it than you are at defining politics.

Under the US global dictatorship, you have actively participated in the downfall (for the moment) of Israel. You have been used, that is an action for which you are at fault, not Netanyahu.

Netanyahu was guilty of the crime of defying US policy in the ME, and attempting to find a side road through the impasse of the US stranglehold of a free country to exercise its Democratic right to self rule.

There is no Democracy and for Israel, you and your elitist rainbow flags have assured the future for Israel will now be less free and more fraught with danger.

Surely now you must have some glimmer of recognition, that weeping for Palestinians is a self destructive fantasy!

I've always had the dream of visiting Israel.
Of visiting all the historical sites. My younger
brother and his wife did that a few years ago with
a tourist group. Security was paramount and they were
escorted and guided everywhere.

Still they enjoyed their trip but they saw
that there were problems and a big divide
between Israelis and Palestinians. They saw the walls
the barriers, and the treatment in general.

We have friends in Israel. A girlfriend who'd studied
nursing went there to visit decades ago and ended up staying.
She loved it at the time. Unfortunately we've lost touch so
I don't know if she still loves it.

She talked about the rich culture.
She lived in Tel Aviv.


The conflict is tragic - I've read a great deal on the
subject - by various authors - but it's still not the same
as a lived experience.

I don't think that criticizing Israel is antiSemitic.
But I know those that have and do cop a lot of flack.
People like Miriam Margolyes, Antony Lowenstein, to name
just two.

As Miriam Margolyes said:

"It would be much easier not to speak out. My support for
Palestine has brought me great heartache, but I can only speak
the truth. Whenever I raise money for Jewish causes, which I
do frequently, people say to me, "Now Miriam, don't be
controversial." How can I not be controversial?"

"They're asking me to be another Miriam. I can't accept
that something wrong is being done in my name. I am a proud Jew.
I fight antisemitism wherever I see it. I believe people can
change . Truth is not hard to see if you open your eyes."

"I believe that people have to face up to the moral implications
of their actions, and not sit on the fence, and I've made my
choice. I don't sit on the fence. My country right or wrong
doesn't work for me. I'm on the side of humanity. If I see
wrong, I feel I must do my best to fight it. That is who I am."

Even Donald Trump Jnr retweeted this one I think SM

http://twitter.com/JimFergusonUK/status/1710902080309710952

Breaking News Israel: US weapons left behind in Afghanistan used to attack Israel.

A high-ranking Israel Defense Forces (IDF) commander said US weapons left in Afghanistan by the Biden administration were found in the hands of Palestinian groups active in the Gaza Strip.

The chaos that erupted after the #US scramble to evacuate Afghanistan as ordered by #Biden and the significant amount of weapons and equipment left behind there has now been used to attack Israel a close ally of the #USA

#Biden is incapable of leadership and a total embarrassment on the world stage. #IsraelAtWar #HamasTerrorists

http://aamajnews24.com/taliban-702/

EVERYONE WAS SAYING IT

Everyone had been saying since the war in Ukraine began that there was no accountability of the weapons sent to Ukraine, and that much of it was being sold on the black market by corrupt Ukrainian officials, and that only a portion of what is sent actually reaches the front line.

Everyone was saying that US weapons would end up in the hands of terrorists, that there would be blowback.

WELL HERE IT IS.

Don't blame me for what everyone was saying for a year and a half.
All of you choose not to listen to anything I say because you're all blindly proclaiming "Slava Uraini" and we must send more weapons.

- I'm not the one shipping the weapons or attacking people in Israel,
You want someone to blame take a look at yourselves cheering on a war from the most corrupt nation in Europe, and refusing to support the side of peaceful negotiations.

The US exited Afghanistan in what was the most poorly executed withdrawl and sent 113 Billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine.
- And they want to send another 100 billion worth more to maintain a stalemate.

The United States left behind billions worth of weapons
in Afghanistan since falling into the hands of the
Taliban. This was just the start of the weapons global
journey. Militants got access to the weapons left behind.
Some have been seized from militants in India-controlled
Kashmir.

After the Hamas attack the United States is to send
warships and weapons to support Israel. Israel is the
largest cumulative recipient of US assistance since WWII.
Every year Israel received billions in foreign military
financing from the United States.

Perhaps if the Diaspora Jews brought pressure to bear on
not only the Israeli government but on the United States
as well, things may change.

You are either for Israel and its right to exist, or you are not. Yay or Nay. I am pro-Israel, and that's all that I need to say. The predictable shite from the usual mob will not make a bit of difference to anything.

While you are pontificating about something you are completely ignorant of, and safe from, try identifying with the young Israeli woman, who had obviously shat and pissed herself with fear, being pushed into a car, at the point of a gun, by a Palestinian criminal.

What is happening in Israel is tragic for all
concerned. But as long as the world continues
to give a blank cheque to Israel - nothing will
change. Pressure has to be applied otherwise the
conflict will continue indefinitely.

Unsurprisingly, Victorian Socialists have tweeted "Solidarity to the Palestinian Resistance".

Victoria is certainly Australia's 'flyover' state; has been since Andrews, and will continue to be under what's-her-face, another extreme Left operator.

Foxy & others hoping for a settlement at some future time between the
Palestinians and Israel are hoping that the moslems will disobey the
Koran's incitement to kill the Jews and agree to share the land with
the Jews.
It is because of the Koran that a two state agreement cannot be
accepted.
There is a verse that says any land once held by Moslems remains
Islamic land forever.
So when the Arabs invaded in the 8th century and took over, the land
became Islamic, and when the Jews kept coming back that is the basic
cause of all this trouble.
Islam forbids selling or giving up Islamic lands.
ps. They can make a temporary agreement in bad faith when forced.

This is why they demand that all Jews be expelled from
the River to the Sea, or be killed.

Because this is a religious requirement of the Koran there is no
possibility of a settlement.

Oh by the way, did you hear of the celebrations outside Lakemba
station last night ?

According to CNN "Tensions between Israel and the
Palestinians have existed since before the nation's
founding in 1948. Thousands of people on both sides
have been killed and many more injured in the long
simmering conflict between the two sides over decades."

"Violence has been particularly heightened this year.
The number of Palestinians, militants and civilians
killed in occupied West Bank by Israeli forces is at
its highest in nearly two decades. The same is true
of Israelis and foreigners, most of them civilians
killed in Palestinian attacks."

What happens next?

The following link explains:

http://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/israel-hamas-rocket-attack-what-we-know-intl/index.html

For anyone interested in understanding the current crisis
in the Middle East - the book by renowned Israeli
Historian Elan Pappe is indispensable reading - "The
Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."

" Elan Pappe's ground-breaking book revisits the formation
of the state of Israel. Between 1947 and 1949 over 400
Palestinian villages were deliberately destroyed, civilians
were massacred and around a million men, women, and children
were expelled from their homes at gunpoint."

"Denied for decades, had it happened today it could only
have been called ethnic cleansing. Decisively debunking
the myth that the Palestinian population left of their own
accord in the course of this war."

"Pappe offers impressive archival evidence to demonstrate,
that from its very inception, a central plank in Israel's
founding ideology was the forcible removal of the
Indigenous population."

This was taken from a book review. And this book may help
towards a better understanding of what is going on there today.

Having said that - we should note the words of our current PM:

" There is no victory with the slaughter of innocent people."

Palestinians and other anti-Semitic types are as thick as bricks, demonstrating in Australia against something happening in the Middle East. They are also too stupid or too rabid to realise that they are associating themselves with terrorist organisations, which is a criminal offence in Australia.

At least 700 Israelis murdered by Palestinian terrorists, and the idiot Pennÿ Wong calls on Israel to show restraint. A seriously wrong-thinking woman, is Wong, and a disgrace, even to the Albanese government.

What will Australia do?
Foxy,
It should do nothing over there but it should deport anyone publically praising the attack whilst on Australian soil to be instantly deported to the Gaza Strip, no if's no but's !
America did nothing to counter terrorism, Israel is already acting !

The Palestinians have as much right as Ukrainians to resist the occupation of their country.

The capture of tanks and other equipment various military bases that they attacked is completely justified as is the taking of military prisoners.

It certainly takes a degree of bravery to go up against a highly weaponised adversity as Israel.

The actions of some of the participants targeting civilians is of course reprehensible. The parading of the naked body of the female German tattoo artist was particularly heinous.

Unfortunately under past Israeli standards she would of course been regarded as an enemy combatant.

I'm not sure I can see a way of achieving peace while fascists are in power on both sides of the border.

I certainly agree with Wong and her call for restraint, and that applies to both sides! We don't need hawkish idiots in Australia, Washington or elsewhere, be they Jew, Arab or whoever, advocating for all out war.

Steele, you have it A UP.
The Israelis are not the occupiers, it is the Arabs who are the
occupiers. I suggest you read some history.

Dear Bezza,

Sure, which history would you like?

Perhaps the monument near Tangiers which read: “We are the Canaanites. We are they that have been driven out of the land of Canaan by the Jewish robber, Joshua.”

Which indicated the Jews were the occupiers.

Or should we go back even further?

Dear SteeleRedux,

Recent research shows the the Jews/Judeans and the Canaanites are one and the same! Joshua was himself a Caananite, who lived and conquered that land several centuries earlier than the Biblical account.

The story about the separate existence of "Jews" and Canaanites probably came about in order to cover up the embarrassing fact that until the reign of King Josiah, the Jews/Judeans, like everyone else, worshiped the usual fertility gods of the region, including in Jerusalem's temple. This is merely a cowardly attempt to claim "no, these were not us, it was them, the Canaanites, whom we conquered"...

As for Israel's indigenous population, most of them descend from Jews who continuously lived on their land and never went to exile. Although they converted into Islam over the centuries (in order to avoid the Jizya tax), in a way they are more Jewish than the European immigrants.

The first Zionists wished to embrace them as their own. Sadly they refused and responded with terror instead.

---

Dear Foxy,

Peppe is as much an extremist as Netanyahu's coalition partners. The historical truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Baldrick,

Stop lying, only anti-Ukraine trolls were claiming that US weapons were being stolen and sold on the black market and so far you have provided zero evidence that this was true.

The Palestinians have as much right as Ukrainians to resist the occupation of their country.
Steeleredux,
That goes without saying & what also goes without saying is to be a considerate citizen !

One sided statements should be avoided in this volatile
situation. Innocent people on both sides are dying.

This conflict has been happening since 1948 and can't
be understood by people who don't live in those areas.
Many innocent people will continue to die unless pressure
is applied on both sides - and weapons, military equipment,
and money is withdrawn.

There are as many Palestinians living and working in Israel as there Orthodox Jews. The Jewish State accommodate peaceful Palestinians, as they do civil Palestinians in Gaza. It is the extreme Muslims Hamas funded by Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon that pose problems to the civilian Democratic State of Israel.

I can recognize persons like Steele, Foxy, and Paul supporting conflict and Hamas as justified killing of innocent people. Israel now must recover civilians taken hostage by Hamas without taking Palestinian civilian casualties. Hamas is guilty of war crimes, Israel now has to avoid crimes of war.

As usual, all the pompous prating by armchair warriors, who don't know their arses from their elbows, will continue until they get bored.

But, the Israeli-Palestian conflict will continue, just as it has for the past 75 years.

Josephus,

No one in their right mind is supporting this conflict.
And it is disgraceful for you to again point fingers at
people with different views. Go say a prayer and ask for
guidance. Your heart appears to be full of venom where you
need to strike out at people.

Yuyutsu,

Professor Elan Pappe is not an extremist. He's been described
as one because he presents the history of the state of Israel
in a way that encompasses the narrative of the Palestinian
people. A bold ambition in a society in which militarism,
nationalism, and religion are potent unifying forces.

Criticism of Pappe's work is not surprising given that his
work has sought to challenge the accepted truths in a
divided land. This led to his being forced to resign from
the University of Haifa in 2007. He now teaches at Exeter
University in the UK and is highly respected by students
and fellow colleagues.

When religious intolerance is mixed with social and political injustice the results can be catastrophic. The Middle East is the "perfect" example of what not to do when dealing with people from different ethnic, social and religious backgrounds, add in foreign interference and look at the result.

Hey SM,
Truthfully, I take no sides in this fight.
As for you, you've been cheering on Ukrainians being sent to their deaths for the last 18mths to the tune of 500,000 men.
- Now you're spakking out because people are dying that you might actually care about.

My Great Grandfather was there in 1917 fighting at the behest of the British to take the land from the Ottomans.
http://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1068798/document/5517397.PDF
This isn't the first blood of innocents in that damned place, and it sure won't be the last.

This is more of a prison riot, happens every few years.

From what I understand Hamas was created BY ISRAEL, to counter Yasser Arafat, probably not to different from the way the US created the Taliban the Mujahudeen, and probably Islamic State too.

I found the images of the last few days quite disturbing, and I know there's a whole lot more worse stuff out there.
Now Israel are running around killing innocents with as much fervour as the Palestinian attackers were.

The State of Israel was established on the back of terrorism with the bombing of the King David Hotel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
The leaders of Haganah opposed the idea initially.[15] On July 1, 1946, Moshe Sneh, chief of the Haganah General Headquarters, sent a letter to the then leader of the Irgun, Menachem Begin, which instructed him to "carry out the operation at the 'chick'", code for the King David Hotel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud
Founder: Menachem Begin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu
is an Israeli politician who has been serving as the prime minister of Israel since December 2022, having previously held the office from 1996 to 1999 and again from 2009 to 2021. He is the chairman of the Likud party.

A nation founded by terrorism, a political party founded by terrorists, to which Netanyahu was / or the leader of the party.
(Yuyutsu might correct me here not sure the current political situation)

What do you expect me to do with this?

[Cont.]
I'm sorry all I know it's horrible but I agree with SteeleRedux, Palestinians have just as much right to defend themselves against the occupation, as the Israeli's have to defend themselves against Palestinian militants.

Israel is not at war with Hamas, it's at war with Palestinians.

(Foxy watch this, it follows on from your last comment)

http://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1711142886366941639
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantura_massacre

http://www.inminds.com/jews-of-iraq.html

Proud Boy Jose'

Where have I said; "Paul supporting conflict and Hamas as justified killing of innocent people" YOU are a liar and a reprobate, I've never remotely said anything remotely like that, nor have Foxy or Steele.

Police just watched pro-terrorist rioters in Sydney, but arrested a man for carrying an Israeli flag. The man said that the flag was furled, and he had only just arrived on the scene. He was "breaching the peace" , said the police who didn't have the orders to deal with rioters associating themselves with a terrorist organisation.

What a gutless, pissy little country Australia has become, under all its gutless pissy little governments, aided and abetted by its gutless, pissy little population.

[Cont.]
Israelis (who served in the IDF in intelligence are saying its IMPOSSIBLE that Israel did not know.
That a cockroach can't get near that fence without Israel knowing about it.
http://twitter.com/efenigson/status/1710716137044922585

- This on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur war.

And what of the Iron Dome defence system?
Why did we see dozens of motorised gliders flying in.

For all I know, Israel let it happen deliberately for justification for whatever they plan on doing next, maybe wipe Gaza off the map entirely.

I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying I don't know.

Apparently Haaretz is blaming Netanyahu.
(I don't have the link right now)

Again, I find the images and loss of life disturbing.
But it's par for the course in this neck of the woods.

Again, This isn't the first innocent blood spilled in that damn place, and it sure as hell won't be the last.

Yuyutsu, I hope your family and friends in Israel are safe and well.

The lunatic imam leading the pro-terrorist demonstration in Sydney, Ibrahim Dadoun, spoke alongside Albanese at a recent Muslim community event. The PM needs to be more careful about whom he is seen associating with. Muslim community leaders have also refused to condemn Hamas.

It's perfectly fine for the Israeli's to keep taking land to build settlements,
but if Russia take land in Ukraine, to protect its security interests against a hostile west then all of us have to pay for it.

The whole world is so full of shite.

Baldrick and Stoolreflex,

The area surrounding Gaza is recognised internationally as Israel and not as occupied, this is not a defence.

Both you antisemites have yet to condemn Hamas for this appalling atrocity. These animals are not brave as they overwhelmingly attacked women and other civilians and have scuttled back to Gaza with hostages to hide amongst their women and children.

The harsh controls the Israelis have put on Gaza are because Hamas is dedicated to killing Jews. And while Hamas has given Israel a bloody nose, the retribution is likely to be massive and future restrictions even stronger.

Apparently Israel is cutting off food, water, and
electricity to Gaza.

Cutting aid and punishing an entire community
is rather sinister.

The way to end this conflict is to address the root causes
instead of further retaliation and punishment.

As a country we should not take sides. Condemning terrorist
actions is of course warranted, but public displays
such as - the lighting up of a landmark with the Israeli
flag colours - is perhaps a step too far.
No building has ever been lit up in the Palestinian flag.

Ah you're the big man on international law now hey?
I keep telling you how to use google, you must me a low level moron to still be having trouble using it.

Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms
http://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

You really do have a chronic case if foot in mouth disease don't you charter boat.
All your favorite Neocons are lining up to blame Iran btw.
Just what one might expect from the 'End of Times' brigade.
- Never let a good crisis go to waste...

I guess they need a distraction from their failed Ukraine project.

Netanyahu Bears Responsibility for This Israel-Gaza War
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000

I thought you'd be pleased with all this Shadow Minister
Don't you have a new temple to build somewhere?

Hmmm

Shadow Minister,

Palestinian territory encompasses the Gaza Strip and
West Bank including East Jerusalem - and it has been
illegally occupied by Israel since 1967.

People are being ruled against their will and they don't
want to be ruled by a foreign military.

Cutting aid and punishing an entire community who did not
carry out the attack is dreadful and ordinary Palestinians
on top of the miserable reality that they live in - this is
politics of a sinister kind. Cutting off food, water, and
electricity to Gaza - is extreme action. It will only
encourage more hatred and retaliation and the continuance
of this conflict.

Hi Foxy,

"People are being ruled against their will and they don't
want to be ruled by a foreign military."

Geez, that may just sound awfully familiar to the citizens of the Donbass who were bombed for 8 years, don't you think?

Like I said earlier the whole worlds full of it.

Did you catch that last link I added earlier that coincided with one of your previous comments?
(It's good, not bad - or truthfully none of its good)

And Shadow Minister,
It's not my fault you get your panties all up in a wad when I say things you don't like.
Try to be calm, go pop a couple of Valium or Xanax or something and try to rest your nerves.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000

"This also included a massive expansion of settlements and bolstering of the Jewish presence on the temple mount, near the Al-Aqsa Mosque, as well as boasts of an impending peace deal with the Saudi's in which the Palestinians would get nothing, with open talk of a "Second Nakba" in his governing coalition. As expected, signs of an outbreak of hostilities began in the West Bank, where Palestinians started feeling the heavier hand of the Israeli occupier. Hamas exploited the opportunity in order to launch its surprise attack on Saturday."

Hamas in 2017: The document in full
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

Well shite ay...

If you want peace, support what Lavrov and Yuyutsu are saying.

http://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710690300765585583

Russian Foreign Affairs Ministry:
"We call for an immediate ceasefire and a peace plan based on the establishment of an independent Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital"

Well shite ay...
Who would of bloody known that Russia was the sensible person in the room.

Yuyutsu,
Is all this a result of Netanyahu's hard right policies?

Dear Critic,

«A nation founded by terrorism, a political party founded by terrorists, to which Netanyahu was / or the leader of the party.
(Yuyutsu might correct me here not sure the current political situation)»

I am just too busy today to respond in full, but essentially my answer is that things there were never black-and-white. There were terrorism and terrorists on both sides, but there was also much generosity.

The Likud party, formerly known as "Cherut", "Gachal" and "Machal" was found by Menachem Begin who was a very honourable man who wanted peace (I could add more but don't have the time today). Begin's son and many other former Likud members, left the party in disgust of Netanyahu and his fellow corrupt clan who have little to do with the original party.

To see the mixed bag, the original values of Begin's movement, I quote/translate from their anthem:

"With blood and sweat a new race will be constructed for us, which shall be Genius/Intelligent/Proud, Generous and Cruel".

That first quality can be translated both as "genius" and "proud",
the second quality, "Generous", seems to have been forgotten by the current mob presently in government, which sadly remembers only the third, whose original spirit was "cruel when necessary, when genius and generosity fail to work".

«Yuyutsu, I hope your family and friends in Israel are safe and well.»

Thank you so much. Some by fluke are out of the country at the moment, touring Japan (if they cannot find a flight back since most are cancelled, then they could possibly visit me instead), all others I believe to be safe but the situation keeps changing. They stay locked up at home due to the constant air-raid sirens and fires from rockets, and while the older ones manage well, this can be difficult for one single mother with two small children that cannot understand why there is no kindergarten and why they cannot go down to play outside, to the beach, not even for shopping (and the supermarkets are now empty anyway).

In Sydney, while police look on after arresting a man with an Israeli flag, the lovely Palestinians, beloved of Australian communists, are shouting "gas the Jews".

Chris Minns has 'slammed' the Palestinian supporters of terrorism, saying their disgusting behaviour in the safety of a weak, democratic country, is "against the tenets of our multicultural community".

What did these idiot politicians who enabled multiculturalism think was going to happen, in a weak country like Australia!

God of mercy and compassion
Of grace and reconciliation
Pour your power upon all your children
In the Middle East:
Jews, Muslims, and Christians,
Palestinians and Israelis
Let hatred be turned into love
Fear to trust, despair to hope
Oppression to freedom,
Occupation to liberation
That violent encounters
May be replaced by loving embraces
And peace and justice could be
Experienced by all.

Rev. Dr Said Ailabouni.

__________________________________________________________________

Two people, one land
Three faiths, one root
One earth, one mother
One sky, one beginning, one future
One destiny
One broken heart, One God
We pray to You, Grant us a vision of unity
May we see the many in the one
And the one in the many
May you, Life of All the Worlds
Source of All Amazing Differences
Help us to see clearly
Guide us gently and firmly toward
Each other, toward peace.

Rabbi Sheila Weinberg.

Dear Foxy,

«Two people, one land
Three faiths, one root»

You can never get anywhere until you understand and acknowledge that there are many more than two people in that land, and far more than three faiths.

Oversimplifying the situation can be poetic, but is anything but practical.

Yuyutsu,

It was an attempt by a Jewish Rabbi to get a message
of peace across. They were not my words, but certainly
a valid attempt by a Jewish Rabbi
one of which I'm sure all of us can
approve because the quest for peace is more important
than criticizing the language used.

And there are people on both sides who are seeking
peace.

Plus the reference to "two people"is symbolic -
of the two sides involved in this struggle.
That of Israel and Palestine. You did not have to
take it literally. It is a poem after all.

Shadowminister,

You simpered: "The area surrounding Gaza is recognised internationally as Israel and not as occupied, this is not a defence."

What an idiotic statement.

That would render any Israeli airstrike into Gaza as not a defensive action. Fine by me.

You further whinged: "These animals are not brave as they overwhelmingly attacked women and other civilians and have scuttled back to Gaza with hostages to hide amongst their women and children."

In operation Cast Lead the UNHCR said 65% of the 2125 deaths were civilians, IDF claimed only 36% of them were civilians, another 30% were apparently "Uncatergorised males between 16 and 50.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War

The large number of those attending the music festival and dancing through the night were Israelis of military age likely to have been trained how to kill Palestinians.

This in no way excuses shooting these unarmed combatants. That is against International law. But in the past the IDF has thought nothing of bombing the homes of Gazan policemen (who they have lumped in as combatants) killing they and their families.

As to hostages there are thousands upon thousands of Palestinian hostages, many who have not been charged, rotting in Israeli prisons.

Israel has in the past freed 1,000 of them to secure the release of a single Israeli.

It is an understandable tactical move by Hamas.

Now I'm not expecting your stunted brain will be able to cope with this, but there really isn't that much separating the two sides.

If you are Muslim, you will believe the words of the Koran to kill all Jews, hence the chant by Palestinians, "From the Jordan to the sea all Palestine shall be free".
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/reign-of-terror-hamas-terrorists-bent-on-eliminating-israel-and-jewish-people/ar-AA1hUKiT?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=e879807711824ae681633f93a8e37

Hi Steele,

"Now I'm not expecting your stunted brain will be able to cope with this, but there really isn't that much separating the two sides."

True on both accounts, look out the stunted brain will be labelling you a rock spider, then he'll run to the Moderator crying that you retaliated and called the poor sod a "stunted brain", and demand proof.

I have absolute disgust for the actions of Hamas in targeting innocent civilians. I also have equal disgust for the way the Israelis have treated the Palestinian people for decades with American connivance. The Israelis are somewhat more "sophisticated" in the way they exercise genocide against the Palestinians, but its up there with what the Nazi's did against other Jews 80 years ago, but the horrors of their actions is not that well reported in Western media, as the media bias favours Israel.

Steele, I did read once that the Jews are indeed Canaanites and later
became known as Jews.
Either way the land is their land.

Foxy seemed surprised that Israel has cut off water, electricity etc etc,
Remember Australians were some of the Dambusters and disrupted food
supplies fuel etc.
Such actions are normal for a war.

No, what is different here is that families in their homes were shot
and just driving by in their cars were shot and killed.

"GAS the JEWS !"

rang out in Sydney; Did that send a chill down your spine Foxy ?

This appears to be such a hopeless situation.
There should be an immediate halt to the
cycle of armed confrontation between the two sides.

The United States instead of
giving more military support to Israel
should insist on a halt to
the continued implementation of any violent and
extremist policies and actions which only deprives
the region of any serious opportunity for stability.

Surely there are enough experts who can influence both
sides to come to the table and try to negotiate a
solution where both sides can live together as equal
citizens with equal rights.

Why not ask the people on both sides what they would like
to see happen. I'm sure that both sides are tired of all
the violence and extremist policies that have been imposed,
forcing situations that were time bombs just waiting to
happen. Unless things change - this will continue. America
can influence this change. But giving one side a blank
cheque has not helped and won't resolve this insane situation.
The problem will continue as it has thus far.

Both sides will find excuses for their behaviour. Pressure
needs to be applied to both sides forcing them to negotiate
a settlement that both can live with. Otherwise all they
will do is try to destroy each other. And innocent people
will continue to suffer.

No surprise in the drivelling naivety of the three usual suspects.

Proud Boy Jose'

You are supporting Zionist genocide against two million innocent Palestinians in Gaza. The Zionist which you agree with, are purposely murdering thousands of innocent men, women and children at the moment with indiscriminate rocket attacks in retaliation for the appalling atrocities committed against innocent Jews. The Zionist are massing death squads on the boarder in readiness to go in for a wave of mass executions in the next few days in Gaza. You would agree with that action, as its the same message of hatred of others you Christian extremists preach. Several other of the forums Old Farts also agree with that Zionist action, they won't be satisfied until they see state sanctioned murder of thousands of innocent Palestinians.

ttbn, is it reasonable to say you agree with the Zionist death squads which Israel is massing on the boarder with Gaza.You would be happy to see them go in and murder thousands of innocent Palestinians? Providing an old fart like you is in no physical danger, and completely safe in your living room in far off Australia at the time.

There one of them goes, proving his drivelling naivety and ignorance.

Waste of time making any attempt to reason with these narcissists who, like all stupid people, don't know how stupid they are. If they weren't so obnoxious, you might feel sorry for them. But, due to their craving for attention and the utter belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong, contempt, not sorrow, is what they attract.

Paul,
Hamas, a recognised terrorist organisation launches an attack on innocent Israeli families and festival goers (we all saw it) and all of sudden it's the fault of "Zionist death squads"?
You are a lefty war monger and total tosser mate!

I heard today on ABC that the Palestinians demand Israel give them advance warning when retaliating. How much warning of their attacks did they give Israel ?

FireballXL5,

He claims to be a pacifist!

There is little point in taking your average narcissist to task. The more you oppose them, the more they dig their heels in. They hate criticism of any sort, and will rabbit on until their detractors are worn out. They are great with references to 'prove' their nonsense, but they suffer from conformation bias, and look only for stuff that suits their ideology and beliefs. Rule number 1: forget any conventional courtesy, and talk about them (if you must), never directly to them. They think that you are open to discussing their nonsense, and that you will eventually come around to their way of thinking, so self-righteous are they.

FireballXL5,

Hamas had no right what so ever to do what they did, no matter what their reasoning be, no matter what they call it, they have committed an atrocious crime of terrorism against innocent people, full stop! I watch the news, Israel is preparing to invade Gaza. The Israeli military will send in up to 300,000 personnel who will indiscriminately kill thousands of innocent Palestinians. If that is what takes place, what do you call it? All I hear on the forum is Israels right to revenge. Revenge by committing acts of murder against innocent Palestinians that if it be the case, is as bad as the original crime itself. I consider the Israeli leadership, not the Israelite people, Netanyahu and co, hard line Zionists, opposing equally hard line Palestinian radicals. The whole situation is a stinking bloody mess!

That’s another ploy of narcissists. Trying to appear reasonable and conciliatory - until the next time their egos lead them to lecture you on the error of your ways - or just call you names.

Hi Bezza,

You asked me if the cry heard in Sydney recently of -
"Gas the Jews," sent a chill down my spine.

This entire abhorrent situation is sending chills down
my spine and has been doing it for decades. The Hamas
attack has let loose forces that have made a bad situation
even worse.

Inflammatory remarks have been a part of this regions
history. For example Benjamin Netanyahu's approach to
Palestinians:

"Beat them up, not once but repeatedly, beat them up
so it hurts so badly, until its unbearable."

Former Israeli Deputy PM - Eli Yishai urged the army to:

"Send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."

And Rabbi Eli Ben Dahan former Israeli Deputy Defense
Minister commented that Palestinians - "Are beasts. They
are not human."

It's probably hard for us Westerners to fully understand
the situation in a region so far from our shores. All
we can do is sympathize of the human suffering on both
sides and pray that it will come to an end sooner rather
than later before more innocent people die.

Name calling and finger-pointing won't achieve anything
productive. And it's sad to see it happening in our streets
and encouraging violence.

How to resolve this horrible mess? I'm no
pundit. But surely there must be a way that hasn't yet
been tried and there must be experts familiar with the
regions who can advise and apply pressure. Peace can't
come until a start is made.

Also taking sides won't help the situation. The root causes
run deep. And they won't be fixed over night. Maintaining a
balance is important - at least in my view. My heart goes
out to the innocent people on both sides.

I'm still hoping that my dream of one day being able to visit
the region can come true. I hope that I shall live long
enough to see this conflict end.

I've emailed my local federal member asking if the government will be taking action against demonstrators in Australia appearing to associate themselves with a terrorist organisation. Labor member, so I'm not expecting a reply; but they need to get the message.

It's something that we can all do, while we still can - before the latter-day communists get full control.

Times of turmoil have always offered fertile grounds for
hatred. The recent scale and depth of the wave often
surprises us. It needs to be viewed in a wider context
of vile abuse against other groups such as - women, Muslims,
immigrant communities to name just a few.

We need to differentiate between the wrongful actions of a
few and the vast majority who abide by the law and the rules
of civility and decency.

The vast majority of Australians don't go around being abusive
to people. Unfortunately, these are times of turmoil and
has brought out the worst in some people.

It seems that Premier Minns is not going to tolerate another pro-terrorist disgrace to take place. Behaviour of that kind should never have allowed in the first instance. The police Commissioner and the police Minister are not very popular at the moment. They both should be sacked.

ttbn,

Maybe you should E-mail your local member, and demand the immediate sacking of the NSW Police Commissioner and Minister.

You are a right-wing warmonger and total tosser mate!

Stoolreflux,

You whined moronically "That would render any Israeli airstrike into Gaza as not a defensive action." No, you imbecile, it wouldn't. The Hamas homicidal attack was not in response to any Israeli attack, The Israeli response was to the murder of hundreds of women and children by Hamas who is still firing on Israel.

While our local village moron claims that Israel is assembling death squads to shoot Palestinians indiscriminately, this is more drivel from this idiot.

What I believe Israel is going to do is rip out Hamas by the roots. It will be bloody and civilians while not the target will be collateral damage. Hamas is directly responsible for the loss of these lives.

ttbn,

In assessing your remarks and comments about virtually any issue that can be discussed I've come to the conclusion that not are you a big mouth with actually very little to say that can be considered as a positive contribution.
I accept that your contribution to society as a whole, much less to your local suburb, is so microscopic that it would take a bed bug a nano second to devour it.
Now you obviously have nothing better to do other that to espouse your meaningless rhetoric to like minded jingoes who are also trying to justify their existence.
It's obvious this platform provides you with the impetus to get out of bed each day to which you are undoubtedly thankful for because without it what could you do?

It's a shame that media coverage has focused on a tiny
fringe of vile attendees at the rallies in Sydney.
The slurs came from a handful of agitators.
The organizers of the rallies -
the Palestine Action Group condemned the behaviour as
did Arab and Muslim elders. Also police were swift in
taking action.

As stated earlier - we need to differentiate between the
wrongful actions of a few and the vast majority who abide
by the laws and rules of civility and decency.
Police are looking at what restrictions should be made to
curtail this disgusting behaviour in the future.

Shadow Minister,

I realize that you are a strong supporter of Israel.
And you probably feel that any criticism
is antiSemitic. However to
criticize a government's policies we should be able to
if they are unjust and affect people badly depriving them of equal
rights.

Before we point any fingers - we need to look at the root
causes of the attack by Hamas and what can be done towards
trying to stop further incidents where innocent people on
both sides die. Taking just one side of this turmoil is not
going to achieve anything constructive.

Cut the bullshite folks. You are either pro Israel or pro Hamas. There is no in between. The yes, burning babies is horrible, but.... palaver doesn’t fool anyone. The Leftists on this site, as always, are bloody disgraceful.

According to Pew Research Center the divide in
Middle East sympathies for Israel or the
Palestinians is now wider than ever before.

Currently 79% of Republicans say they sympathize
more with Israel than the Palestinians compared
with just 27% of Democrats.

Netanyahu remains a deeply polarizing figure in
the United States.

Americans continue to be divided in their views of
whether or not a way can be found for Israel and
an independent Palestinian state to co-exist peacefully.
About half (49%) say that it is possible while 4 in ten
(39%) say it is not.

Views about prospects for a two-state solution are
correlated with Middle East sympathies.

Israel sympathizers - only 40% say a way can be found
to co-exist. Palestinian sympathizers - 64% say a two
state solution is possible.

Interesting figures.

Before rushing in to support either one side
or the other here is a few reader's thoughts:

http://smh.com.au/national/nsw/a-tale-of-two-states-the-only-possible-solution-20231009-p5eaq8.html

Hi Foxy,

Don't be fooled into believing that some far right extremist is, "a strong supporter of Israel", that can be misleading. For some of the more extreme, its a case of; "The enemy of my enemy is my "friend"". They are anti Semitic, but their hatred and mistrust of Muslims is even great than their anti Jewish slant, so they view this as opportunity to attack Islam through Zionism. They are not perturbed to see Israelis killed, believing the Israelis will kill even greater numbers of Palestinians, that's their aim.

The decades old conflict between Jews and Palestinians in the former British Mandate for Palestine has never been resolved.

- And I think there is an unwillingness on the part of Israel to genuinely try to resolve it, they want more land.

I think that the people living under occupation have every right to fight against those who subjugate them and they have as much right to their own sovereign state and to live free as much as anyone else.

That said, I oppose the killing of all innocent people regardless of which side they're on, and on some level I understand that Palestinians have genuine reason for animosity towards Israelis / the Zionist state of Israel.

And while I don't condone these atrocities, I could understand a sense of 'Now you know how we feel' from the Palestinians living under occupation.

"You are either pro Israel or pro Hamas. There is no in between."

I don't have to choose, if forced to then I'm pro-Australia, and for the rights of innocent people to live free.

If you really want me to take a side, then my conscience forces me to support the right of those under occupation to live free.

One side says snow white gave this land to us and we need to remove these people,
The other side says snow white says we have to wipe them all out.

I care not for religions, I only care that all human beings should have a right to a peaceful dignified existence and to live free.

Calls from steps of the Sydney Opera House for Jews to be killed 'from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea'.

Calls to 'gas the Jews'.

How about that hate speech legislation. Oh, it doesn't apply to terrorist supporters in Australia, apparently.

Still no condemnation from the Australian National Council of Imams.

Albanese is more concerned about Islamophobia than calls for death for Jews.

For all the pathetic dills voting Yes to the Voice because of what other countries might think of Australia, the answer is they are not interested.

But, the the videos of Hamas supporters in Australia has disgusted people world wide.

Foxy,

I do support Israel against the murderous forces trying to kill its civilians, but I don't consider any criticism antisemitism.

However, the trolls that try to blame Israel for this incident are clearly antisemites. The greens are clearly antisemitic and Labor is tilting that way too with Albozo being one of the very last to condemn the barbarity of the Hamas attempt at genocide and only doing so because he ran out of options. The support of NSW Labor for the Jewish-hating parade supporting the massacre will haunt them for decades.

The atrocities cannot be forgiven or not punished. Israel is more than justified in hunting down and destroying Hamas, and if Hamas hides behind its women and children as it has done so many times before, then the deaths are on their heads.

Stoolreflux,

You whined imbecilically "That would render any Israeli airstrike into Gaza as not a defensive action. Fine by me."

You antisemitic halfwit, there was no attack on Gaza when Hamas launched their

It is only a moron that claims that Israel is assembling death squads to shoot Palestinians indiscriminately. Every single war between Gaza and Israel has been started by Hamas whose prime aim is to kill as many Jews as possible.

Clearly, anti-Semites are not going to admit that they are anti-Semites. Some might even have fooled themselves that they are not anti-Semites. But they are not fooling anyone else.

Thousands of people turning out in Sydney to show support for Israel, makes the terrorists lovers look pretty silly.

shadowminister,

The great regurgitator.

You really never leave the RWNJ script do you. Black and white take on things after you get told what to say then absolutely zero deviation from the message there after.

What happens to your brains? Is the some kind of lobotomy that occurs when you go hard right?

When it comes down to it your take devolves into 'atrocities permit atrocities but only for my side'.

Elements of the attack by Hamas were undeniably atrocities just as previous attacks/operations on Gaza by Israel have been atrocities by any measure.

It is the trading of atrocities which has to stop and far more thought has to be given to the victims on both sides.

Oh god!

SR, the greatest singer from the lefty hymn book on the net accusing others of following a script. If anyone has had a lobotomy making them one eyed it is SR.

I read the conversation that journalist Patricia
Karvelas had with our Foreign Minister Penny Wong.
I was impressed with the sensible take that the
Foreign Minister displayed in trying to present a
balanced viewpoint.

It is a dreadful situation. And one that we all would
like to see end. There is no place in Australia for prejudice
or hatred of any kind and we all should stand firmly
against any sort of vile language.

This conflict in that region has been a long-standing
dispute with long-standing suffering and violence on all
sides. If only a just and enduring solution could be found
which recognizes the legitimate aspirations of both the
Jewish and Palestinian peoples.

But it appears that this won't be happening any time soon.
What we are seeing now is dreadful. Nothing justifies the
violence or tha taking of hostages, the killing of
civilians, the awful scenes being engaged in. It needs to
stop.

If only the people on both sides would say - "Enough!
Stop doing this in my name!" "We want this to end!"
But, unfortunately, this doesn't look like it will
happen anytime soon.

Just saw Joe Biden on TV pontificating that 'Silence is complicity'
Geez, that's the pot calling the Kettle black isn't is.

75 years of occupation with the US vetoing anything that might change the situation for the better, and he says that.

Western leaders are so full of it and out of touch with reality it's astounding.

People complain that Russia uses the UN to veto everything.
The US is certainly no better.

And as for religions...
One thing I've noticed is that those who identify more closely as Christians are all the ones chanting 'Kill them all'
Figure that.
The same damn people turn the other cheek when other people are getting bombed into oblivion.

ooks to me like selective outrage, by people who should really be indentifying as 'hypocrites' not 'Christians'

(And FYI, is case you're wondering ttbn, this comment is not specifically directed at you. I'm seeing this all across the board from individuals right up to the US leadership)

Everyone has a right to an opinion, even a right to hold a preference and hate if that's how they feel, but I agree that right stops at the point people start calling for violence.

These conflicts are inevitable so long the truth of how things came to be is obfuscated, and the media is more interested in playing to it's own biases and getting ratings from the guillible rather than informing is viewers, even when the truth is ugly.

Bit of a cheek SR calling SM a regurgitator, when all SR himself does is regurgitate left wing rubbish from wackjobs on Google.

Then there is his usual abuse, which is the only thing original and his own: "What happens to your brains? Is the (sic) some kind of lobotomy that occurs when you go hard right?"

Then, of course, he compares Israeli self-defence with Hamas atrocities like burning and beheading babies.

This rabbit was born 'lobotomised'.

The Israeli Government has asked Egypt to open their borders to fleeing women and children from Gaza, this Egypt has done near its border. Ihey have set up a check point to ensure the terrorists of Hamas is not entering Egypt. This will allow Israel to search out armed Hamas and military weapons stockpiles and destroy them. I have two family grandsons in the Israeli armed forces and know they do not wish to commit war crimes as does Hamas, murdering unarmed civilians and children.

Well said SteeleRedux, Foxy and Armchair Critic so true what you say. Unfortunately there are those on here who believe to remedy one wrong, the solution is to commit another wrong.

Fancy. Australian Jews being told to stay at home because their safety can't be guaranteed. That's what they were told by the wollopers in NSW.

Their safety couldn't be guaranteed because the same wollopers were standing around watching an illegal riot by terrorist supporters celebrating Hamas atrocities against Israeli civilians.

All this happened under the ministership of an ex-council library assistant called Yasmin Catley, who deserves to be tarred and feathered, and driven out of town.

This sheila is also in charge of counter terrorism. Can you believe it!

As one commentator said, the wollopers now only go around scaring priests and people sitting quietly on park benches.

And arresting a man with a furled Israeli flag.

Lord help Australia. The people paid to do it - politicians, police, public servants, certainly won't.

Dear Paul,

The situation on our city streets has gotten rather ugly
unfortunately. Blaming politicians, police, or front-
line staff having to deal with these highly emotional crowds,
has not helped. A man carrying an Israeli flag got
arrested for his own safety, while crowds chanted slurs.
A dreadful situation all round.

Israel is going to have to make a choice. Will it be able to
see that withholding political legitimacy from Palestine
doesn't keep its people safe?

Or will it squander its own legitimacy by destroying Gaza?

Many Middle-Eastern experts feel that Israel
currently has the most nationalist government in Israel's
history and that it is unlikely to exercise restraint in its
response.

They tell us that the destruction of Gaza is not a solution to
this conflict and will only put the lives of civilians - both
Israeli and Palestinians at risk.

Hamas's act of terror should not be legitimised but the broader
call for Palestinian self-determination is something that
experts on the region say Israel must now meaningfully
acknowledge. Because Israel's own legitimacy and claim to be a
democratic, cosmopolitan, and secure society is at stake.

The Jews have suffered through the ages
You'd think they'd understand
You can't treat others badly
Or take their homes and land

One day these actions will call forth
A human need to fight
To seek one's independence
From the enemy in sight

Seeking now to retaliate
Will only add to the confused state
Peace will forever disappear
Making the future for all unclear.

Hey ttbn,
"This sheila is also in charge of counter terrorism. Can you believe it!"

With the state of things in this country sliding downhill over the last few years I'm really not sure I should answer that...

Might be time to go and vote, try to avoid all the rubbish tomorrow.
And may my many-years-past part-indigenous grandmother forgive me.

It's all very well for the Shadow Minister for Home Affairs, James Paterson, to 'warn' that Australians who support Hamas terrorism face jail.

Neither his Coalition nor Labor would have the knackers to lock anyone up. They might lose the Muslim vote. (There's the lunacy of multiculturalism again, and why it was forced on us - politicians have no decency or loyalty when it comes to getting votes; even from dangerous lunatics completely inappropriate to Western society).

Anti-Semitism is growing again, including in Australia. The influx of Muslims into the country has politicians, particularly those of the Left, pandering for their votes.

The media is no friend of Jews, to put it mildly.

Australian Jews must be very worried. And decent Australians are disgusted.

Hamas, it is said, believes the only solution for the Palestinian problem is Jihad, and that any international interference is futile.

According to Prof. David Flint, a senior Hamas official, Fathi Hammad, has tweeted: “People of Jerusalem, we want you to cut off the heads of the Jews with knives. With your hand, cut their artery from here. A knife costs five shekels. Buy a knife, sharpen it, put it here and just cut off (their heads).”

And, we have people on this site trying to relativise Hamas with Israel.

What a dreadful situation this is.

I can't watch the news any more. It is frightening.
With the end nowhere in sight. And the cost in human lives
growing.

Extremism on both sides amidst escalating violence is
rendering the prospect of a sustainable solution even more
remote.

"The violence is fuelled and exacerbated by a growing sense
of despair about the future," a Senior UN official told the
Security Council today. He observed that the lack of progress
towards a political horizon has left a dangerous volatile
vacuum filled by extremists on both sides.

He went out to point that Palestinian and Israeli fatalities
in 2023 have already surpassed 2022's annual figure and that
settlement expansion "continuous unabated."

Further the Palestinian Authority's fragile fiscal situation
and the funding shortages faced by key UN agencies threaten to
worsen the plight of the most vulnerable Palestinians.

"While we must urgently focus on addressing the most critical
issues and on de-escalating the situation on the ground we
cannot ignore the need to restore a political horizon," he
stressed.

Lets hope that someone heard and action will be taken.
Because the current situation is awful - with no end in sight.

Hi Foxy,

All water and electricity has been cut off to Gaza. Israel is continuing with its indiscriminate bombardment of Gaza, whilst Hamas is firing rockets at civilian targets in Israel. Total madness as innocent civilians, many women and children, are being killed on both sides.

“Deliberate killings of civilians, hostage-taking, and collective punishment are heinous crimes that have no justification,” said Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, in a statement, making reference to both the actions of Hamas and the Israeli government. “The unlawful attacks and systematic repression that have mired the region for decades will continue, so long as human rights and accountability are disregarded.”

Israel has massed an army of 360,000 on the boarder with Gaza, ready to "move in" and decimate the Palestinian population, carrying out summery executions of the civilian population at will. Palestinians that are not murdered with the gun, many will die from disease and starvation over the coming months.

Until Hamas , if it survives, decides to disobey the Koran and accept
that land once occupied or conquered by Moslems does not have to
remain Islamic forever.
The land in dispute was conquered by Arab moslems in the 8th century.
The Jews have lived there for about 3000 years so think they have some
right to be there.
BTW, many Moslems think they the right to take over Spain.
They also have the right to take over Sicily and indeed Rome itself
which they briefly occupied around AD420.
So there is the problem, they beleive Allah gives them perpetual
ownership of any land they conquer.
You have to convince them that Allah got it wrong !

'All water and electricity has been cut off to Gaza.'

And in what situation can you do this?

A prison! an open air prison, where you can shoot it's occupants like fish in a barrel as you and when you choose.
And the west calls itself civilized.
The 'Holocaust' was a picnic in comparison to the fifty years the Palestinians have experienced at the hands of the US, UK and Israelis.
Controlling the narrative is the tool used to make this happen with the rest of the west standing by, trying hard to look the other way.
And once you learn to look the other way, say goodbye your humanity.
The Jews raise edifices in different parts of the planet to commemorate the Holocaust.
What is the west going to raise to commemorate their shame and indifference?
And you actually think another war will not result as a consequence of this situation.
Does the west actually think the Arabs will easily forget and not realise they are next through the so called 'normalization' with the soon to be 'greater Israel'.
The Arabs have already started aligning themselves with China because they can see the double standards that have been, and are being, applied across the globe.
The American Red Indians had a name for it, 'white man speaks with a forked tongue', being two faced.
Welcome to the new frightening world!

Stoolreflux,

The great unpolished turd.

I see that you never leave the LWNJ antisemitic script.

The difference between Hamas and Israel is that Hamas directly targets women and children even beheading babies. These are atrocities/war crimes.

Israel targets Hamas even going so far as to warn people to leave buildings used by Hamas. The civilians killed are because Hamas uses its civilians, schools and hospitals as shields. These are legitimate targets even under the Geneva Convention. You should check your facts before you lie and look like an idiot.

Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people, it is an Iranian-sponsored terror group using the people as shields and cannon fodder. and needs to be rooted out like a cancer.

The dead babies story originates here
http://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1711718195025821976

'About 40 babies were taken out on gurneys... Cribs overturned, strollers left behind, doors left wide open'

Our correspondent @Nicole_Zedek continues to survey the horror scenes left behind in Kibbutz Kfar Aza where Hamas invaded and murdered dozens of Israelis in their homes

Then later she says
http://twitter.com/Nicole_Zedek/status/1711721433968111855
Soldiers told me they believe 40 babies/children were killed. The exact death toll is still unknown as the military continues to go house to house and find more Israeli casualties.

As of an hour ago...

Israeli official says government cannot confirm babies were beheaded in Hamas attack
http://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html

Meanwhile, I have seen several images of dead Palestinian babies and kids, though I'd have to sift through my history to find them.

http://twitter.com/Just_A_Tweeter_/status/1711696677378179324
'150,000 Palestinian have been killed and injured by Israel, since 2008. 33000 of those were children's. But no one talk about it, no one calls them terrorist.'

- Also I remember hearing stories where Israel tries to justify the killing of Palestinian kids, arguing they will only grow up to be terrorists anyway.

None of this stuff matters, if people aren't willing to take an honest look at the cause of these conflicts, because it will only continue.

No evidence yet of Iran link to Hamas attack, says Israeli military
'Iran has issued denials and US has said it has no direct knowledge of Iran being behind attack'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/no-evidence-yet-of-iran-link-to-hamas-attack-says-israeli-military

What sort of warmonger would describe innocent women and children as "legitimate targets" the same kind who wants to see Russian people turned into "fertiliser"! ALL war are a disgrace, the warmongers here are a disgrace!

AC, thanks for those links they tell a different story to the contrived propaganda from both sides. The first causality of war is truth.

"ALL war are a disgrace, the warmongers here are a disgrace!"

There's a lot of information out there on X.
The EU has even issued Musk a directive to stop the misinfo / disinfo.
(Basically saying you must go along with our narrative)

Some of it you do have to take with a grain of salt, and be very careful not to be taken in, but there is a broad range of content covering many aspects and points of view.

I wanted to try and compile a heap of it to share with forum members here, but it would take me hours to try to go through it all.

http://twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1712491941269532976
On Sky news ex Israeli PM Naftali Bennett was asked-
"What about the babies in incubators in Gaza who's life support has been turned off because the Israelis have cut off the power"
His answer - Are you serious asking about Palestinian civilians? What's wrong with you?

Some of it is even a little amusing.
http://twitter.com/Just_A_Tweeter_/status/1712074548332429619

Hopefully, the disgusted behaviour at the Opera House and elsewhere will see no more Palestinian "refugees" allowed into Australia. Given the gutless wonders in Canberra, that might be a forlorn hope.

Australia is being wrecked by inappropriate immigration, just like the UK has been wrecked. Unless voters start taking politics seriously, and demanding that Canberra starts acting on their behalf and that of the country, things will only get worse.

The ASIO boss is another one misusing the word 'tragedy' to describe what is happening in Israel and Gaza.

It is not a tragedy - which should be used only to describe events that are accidental or naturally caused.

The current situation was caused by deliberate murder and acts of terrorism, plus, if you like, the unwillingness of people to live and let live, or come to some arrangement peacefully.

No way is the Israel-Hamas conflict a 'tragedy'; it is deliberate, vicious and absolutely unforgivable.

The whole country has become a bleeding hearts club.
People vote based on emotion in support of things that aren't in their best interests but are instead in the best interests of others,
- instead of voting primarily based on what does and does not directly affect them.

'No way is the Israel-Hamas conflict a 'tragedy'; it is deliberate, vicious and absolutely unforgivable.'

Same argument can be said of the other side...
The 2-state solution was never considered in Israel in good faith.
Under Netanyahu it's always been about stealing land and ethnic cleansing.
His heavy handed approach keeps the Jewish populace living in fear of 'Sub-human Palestinian animals' no different to what Hamas is accused of.

This is an ongoing cycle of violence that has gone on for decades, and Israels response will only ensure that cycle of violence continues, and honestly it's probably in Netanyahu's interests and goals to maintain this situation.

You can't blame the Palestinians entirely when they are under occupation.
And you can't trust Israel entirely either when they have an interest in taking more land.

This is a family conflict been happening for 3,800 years, Abrahan had two sons one born of Hagar, Ishmael, Sarahs handmaiden, and one born of Sarah, Isaac. Abraham and Lot his brother came from Mesopotamia and settled in the land now Israel. Lot settled in the plains and Abraham in the high country. However, earlier the three sons of Noah had inhabited the lands before Abraham. When you read the history of Jacob and his two wives Leah, and Rachael, of Genesis 29, again you see the jealousy and hatred that existed between them. Read to Genesis 31 and you get the beginning of this conflict and they have never been able to resolve and forgive. During a drought in the land Joseph was put into a well to perish by his brothers but Judah sold him to Egypt traders passing by. The family later during the drought were invited by joseph to come to Egypt, and they were there for 400 years before returning to their lands. Tribal/ family conflicts have never been resolved.

Miriam Margolyes writes:

"When the Zionists reclaimed Israel, they
didn't take into account the Palestinians who were
already living there . What were they supposed to do?
Were they supposed to disappear?"

"That's where, as a people, we Jews fell down, and
where Hitler won. He changed us from a compassionate
nation into a destructive, uncaring and inhumane one."

"The tragedy of the Palestinians is just as much the
tragedy of the Jews."

"My position on Israel has lost me many friends. Naturally
this makes me sad, but I have to tell the truth. I have
seen with my own eyes how the State of Israel is abusing
the Palestinians."

"I doubt the removal of the accused Prime Minister
Netanyahu will change the situation. He is on trial for
corruption charges. He is not alone. Since 1948 , one
president, one prime minister, eleven ministers,
seventeen Knesset members and one chief rabbi have been
found guilty of various offences, from rape to bribery,
and been fined or imprisoned. "

"It is a shameful record ; it proves that the wrong
people are being elected into government. Israel is not
alone in that!"

She goes on to describe Hebron - and what a sad place it is
and how badly the Palestinians are treated. She describes
things she's seen with her own eyes.

She says:

"My hope is that if I can get Jewish people, My people, to
see the Palestinians as human beings, people with longings
and disappointments, and fears and joys, maybe they can
cross the divide. "

"It's about understanding how you would feel if soldiers
came and pushed you out of your home , destroyed your
orchard and the farm that your family had owned for
hundreds of years, and made you feel vermin in your own
country. I keep saying to British Zionists - "Please just
go and look for yourself."

"If the Diaspora Jews brought pressure to bear on the
Israeli government , attitudes could change. "

"Israel must change or it will destroy itself."

The current situation is worsening. With no end in sight.

Well said Foxy.
I may not agree with you in regards to the large majority of opinions you have on other topics, but I agree with you 100% on this.
The constant cycle of violence in that place will never end unless people are 'honest about the true causes of the conflict'.

- Which is the same argument I make in regards to the Russia / Ukraine conflict, I might add.

All this too and fro opinion on who is to blame for what gets nowhere.
There is one point, there are a large number of Palestinians who live
in Israel and in fact have elected some Palestinians to the Knesset
or parliament.
That does not seem to jell with claims that Arabs cannot live in Israel.
hmmmm

AC

I didn't mention 'sides'. But seeing that you have, one side, the terrorists Hamas, definitely started this conflict. The history, ancient hatreds, are another matter entirely, and of no interest to me.

Hamas committed atrocities in the here and now, and Israel is reacting to those atrocities against the country and its people.

There can be no comparison between a democratic country and a bunch of terrorists. Hamas is the only villain in this case particular situation, no matter what the politics or history are. No civilised people do what Hamas has done.

Armchair Critic,

Israel has always been close to my heart.
The love of my life (my first love) was
a Jewish boy, an Israeli. My heart goes
out to the innocent people today - on both
sides of this conflict. Like Miriam Margoyles
I wish that pressure could be applied for the
conflict to stop.

Giving massive support to just one side is not
going to do it. It will only keep the conflict
going.

Henry Siegman - A German-American Rabbi and
Director of the United States Middle East project
said:

"Israel has crossed the threshold from being "The
only democracy in the Middle East" to being the
only apartheid regime in the Western World."

He mentioned the apartheid regime as being the
Occupied Palestine Territories (OPT) which have
been separated into different enclaves making the
people in the Gaza Strip isolated from the rest of
the world because of Israel's illegal blockade."

Now extremism on both sides amidst escalating
violence will render the prospect of a sustainable
solution even more remote.

I will continue to pray for both sides to come together
and see that they can and must learn to live together as
equal citizens in the one land.

I have today read an article by a Jew, whom I will not name for obvious reasons. He has bravely added his name to the article, but I have no right to, or intention of giving it here because of the tone of some of the posts.

This person recognises that Australia has been a good place for Jews. There are about 100,000 Jewish Australians; at least 8 of them arrived here as convicts in 1788. By 1890, there were 10,000 Jews living here.

Some of the best-known Jewish Australians are:

. General Sir John Monash
. Sir Isaac Isaacs, first Australian-born Governor-General
. Sir Zelman Cowen, Australian G-G 1977-1982

These days, the Jewish population are ordinary Australians like the rest of us.

Despite the (not only Australian) rejection of offering sanctuary to Jews in 1938, Australia "has been a warm home for its Jews since, including welcoming some 30,000 Jews after WWII, and subsequent waves out of South Africa and the former Soviet Union".

At the time of the disgusting terrorist gathering at the steps of the Opera House, Israel was yet to take any military action, and the author, understandably, believes that the people involved were there "to celebrate the massacre of the Jews which, in their view, was an act of just resistance." I'll not comment on that. It might or might not be true, but the atmosphere was certainly vile, and the words of Sheikh Ibrahim Dadoun unforgivable.

The author also believes that the heavy police presence was there to "facilitate a pro-Hamas rally and to dispel Jews from Sydney’s CBD, for they could not guarantee Jews’ safety". I concur with that.

Kids afraid to wear their kippahs; Jewish schools turned into "mini forts".

Yet, the author still believes in the "goodness of Australian society"; I am not so sure.

Village idiot,

Once again you reveal your stupidity. It is not my opinion, it is what is written in the Geneva Convention. You should actually read it before making moronic statements. Soldiers hiding amongst civilians using them as human shields is a war crime as they are still legitimate targets to the enemy and risking the lives of civilians.

Morons from the left declare that Israel bombing Hamas targets are committing war crimes, whereas in reality Hamas firing rockets from built-up areas and storing weapons in schools and hospitals are the ones committing the war crimes. Hamas after deliberately shooting civilians, beheading babies and taking hostages does not care about any further war crimes.

Foxy, Baldrick

After the UN had assigned the borders between Israel and then Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt, the 4 Arab countries once Britain withdrew set upon a war of genocide to wipe out Israel and the Jews. The 1949 border was the armistice line that was later recognised as the borders of Israel, notably the area surrounding Gaza was recognised as Israeli territory. Hamas has no legitimate claim to territory outside of the Gazan border.

From 1948 Arabs had already set about murdering civilians, bombing school buses etc and in 1967 a second genocidal war was planned but as before the Arabs lost and Israel took Gaza the Sinai, Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Golan Heights

As for the peace negotiations, Israel made several peace offerings including Gaza and most of the West Bank but the Palestinians refused anything less than the 1949 armistice lines and refused any peace guarantees. The only side that has not been reasonable has been the Palestinian side.

In addition, since Hamas took over Gaza, they have continually targeted civilians and strict border controls were put in place to stop the murders by Hamas.

Shadow Minister,

I'll repeat what I posted earlier.

Israel now needs to make a choice.

Will it be able to recognize that withholding political
legitimacy from Palestine does not help keep its people safe?
Or will it squander its own legitimacy by destroying Gaza?
Israel's history is unlikely to exercise restraint in its
response.

The destruction of Gaza is not a solution to this conflict
and only puts the lives of civilians - both Israeli and
Palestinians at risk. Hamas's act of terror cannot and
should not be legitimized but the broader call for
Palestinian self-determination is something Israel must now
meaningfully acknowledge.

Israel's own legitimacy and claim to be a democratic,
cosmopolitan and secure society is at stake.

Israel has many supporters. But there are also many who
are against the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel
amongst Jews and non-Jews. People like - Avram Noam
Chomsky, Miriam Margolyes, Henry Siegman, Richard Cohen,
Richard Falk, Elan Pappe, Antony Lowenstein,
Mark Ruffalo, Susan Sarandon, to name just a few.

Oh well, I'm so sorry my mistake.

http://twitter.com/ivan_8848/status/1711142886366941639
HORRIFIC!
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
Zionist soldier laughing...

http://twitter.com/GhazYeager/status/1712635339070693851
“Gaza is a cemetery!”

http://twitter.com/Just_A_Tweeter_/status/1711664827192553718
Palestinian woman showed how people live under shelling in the Gaza Strip.

http://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1712419914651197776
Ursula Von Der Leyen:
"Destroying civil infrastructure, turning off electricity, water and heating is pure terrorist behavior! Indiscriminate bombing of entire residential blocks of buildings is something we will condemn and bring the culprits to international court because it is against every law and European norms! "
Is she condemning Israel?

http://twitter.com/Resist_05/status/1712402483115614498
Holocaust survivor Gabor Maté describes the Israel & Palestine conflict as the longest ethnic cleansing operation of the 20th 21st centuries…

http://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1712481844971856025
ISRAEL IS KILLING BABIES - MORE DEAD CHILDREN - THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT PALESTINIAN BABIES

http://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1712268517418975730
While they lie about beheaded Israeli babies, here’s what Israel is doing to Palestinian ones

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres delivers update on the Israel-Hamas war
http://www.youtube.com/live/xiA4hJSR5kM

http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1712114129375252516
Joe Biden: “If there hadn’t been “an Israel”, we would have to invent “an Israel” to protect our interests”.

http://twitter.com/One_Dawah/status/1711826137985187902
Never forget when the Israel Occupation Forces killed an innocent Palestinian kid for fun, they were laughing and cheering while doing so.
The soldiers were not punished.

http://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1711397654922412151
BREAKING: PALESTINIAN FATHER CARRYING HIS DAUGHTER KILLED BY THE IOF

http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1712083077294436365
Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are now running out of water.
Humans need water to live.
Truly diabolic Israeli government.
But God is watching!

http://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1712105154793918913
Erdogan: “Any war that depends on cutting off water, electricity, and roads, and destroying infrastructure, places of worship, and schools is called a massacre.”

http://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1711032418101088468
Keep this map in mind when the Israeli occupation claims "self-defense".

No point getting angry at me.
THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING

Israels response will show the whole world her true colours, and set the Arab world on fire.
All western nations are now full of Muslims.
This may very well backfire on Israel, really badly.

- And there's plenty more where this came from.

Dear Foxy,

«Miriam Margolyes writes:

"When the Zionists reclaimed Israel, they
didn't take into account the Palestinians who were
already living there . What were they supposed to do?
Were they supposed to disappear?"»

This is because she does not know her history.

Zionism wasn't about the creation of some Jewish state, but about reviving the ancient Hebrew culture in its original land, of which the local Arabs were a natural part. Many of the early Zionists were motivated by their wish to shake off and escape the shackles of Judaism and suspected that Israel could be the only place where they can do it successfully: Hitler later proved their suspicions correct.

When the original Zionists came to Israel, they invited the local Arab population to join them as brothers and sisters in building together a new modern country. The local Arabs were not supposed to disappear or go anywhere - they were supposed to joyfully join the Zionist project and its many benefits. Those who did are so much better off today.

«"My hope is that if I can get Jewish people, My people, to
see the Palestinians as human beings"»

This was the Zionist working assumption and how the original Zionists treated the local Arabs, but the more these Arabs prove themselves otherwise, the less Israelis still believe them to be.

«people with longings
and disappointments, and fears and joys,»

Yes, a longing to see all Israelis dead, including even their fellow Muslim-Arab Israeli citizens who joined the Zionist project; fear of their own leadership; and the joy of killing babies.

«It's about understanding how you would feel if soldiers
came and pushed you out of your home»

They brought it on themselves, needlessly, but if you behave as a terrorist then you will be treated as a terrorist and so might all who cling to you.

Anyway, in the coming weeks the goats will be separated from the sheep. I do sincerely hope that once the goats are eliminated, the remaining sheep will prosper, have their wishes fulfilled and live happily on their land.

Yuyutsu,

According to Reuters the news is not good.

Israel calls for all civilians to leave Gaza City, more than
1 million people to re-locate south within 24 hours as it
amassed tanks near the Gaza Strip ahead of an expected ground
invasion.

"Now is the time for war,"Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said
as Israeli warplanes continued pounding Gaza. The Israeli
military said it would operate "significantly" in Gaza in the
coming days and citizens would only be able to return when
another announcement was made.

The United Nations strongly appeals for such an order to be
rescinded avoiding what could transform what is already a
tragedy into a calamitous situation.

Israel has put Gaza - home to 2.3 million people under siege.
The human misery caused by further escalation is abhorrent.
The UN said it considered it impossible for such a movement
to take place "without devastating humanitarian consequences."

This has been caused as a result of Palestinian anger which
was mounted with Israel carrying out the deadliest crackdown
for years in the West Bank and its right-wing government
talking of seizing even more land.

A peace process meant to create a Palestinian State a
decade ago collapsed - which Palestinian leaders say left the
population with no hope, strengthening extremists.

A bad situation getting worse.

Yuyutsu,

Miriam Margolyes knows Israel's history very well. As does renowned Israeli historian Elan Pappe and author and journalist
Antony Lowenstein - all of whom have written a great deal on the subject. "The ethnic cleansing of Palestine," by Pappe
is worth a read. All are concerned Jews hoping for this conflict
to end - where both sides can live in equality and peace
sharing the same land.

I think most of us would wish for that to happen. But due to
extremists on both sides - it doesn't look like its going to
happen anytime soon. It's been decades in the making.

Village idiot,

You would try to hide the murder of innocent women and children behind "the law", we know how good your legal opinions are, we've been subjected to your legal hogwash before, and its wrong. Zionist death squads can be dispatched into Gaza and indiscriminately shoot innocent civilians and then claim; "They were shielding terrorist, and we acted within the Geneva Convention!", give us a break. Then again you know diddly squat about the 'Geneva Convention', and how it can be used as a cowards defence.

Dear Foxy,

«This has been caused as a result of Palestinian anger...»

Yes, I understand this anger: people typically get angry when they fail to get what they want or to avoid what they do not want, but if you are among those who subscribe to this philosophy that angry people are justified in killing innocent others at random just because they are angry, then I should indeed be very afraid to come near you.

«which
was mounted with Israel carrying out the deadliest crackdown
for years in the West Bank and its right-wing government
talking of seizing even more land.»

I am upset about it too, and so are nearly half the Israelis - but I don't go around killing babies because of that.

«A peace process meant to create a Palestinian State a
decade ago collapsed - which Palestinian leaders say left the
population with no hope, strengthening extremists.»

Exactly, so why did these leaders, first Arafat then Abu Mazen, leave the peace talks just at the point when Israel offerred them 97% of their land plus compensation for the other 3%?

They literally left, entered their cars without warning and drove away.

Why?

- Because they never really wanted peace, because peace with Israel would mean democratic elections where they would be ousted!

«Miriam Margolyes knows Israel's history very well.»

She may know about recent history, but from the quote of hers that you presented, it seems that she had no clue about early Zionism, including the writings of Theodor Herzl and even the revisionist Ze'ev Zabotinsky, who wanted the local Arabs to participate as equal partners in the Zionist project.

Dear Yuyutsu,

I do find it depressing that Israel squandered the opportunity to set the Westbank apart. To progress that part of Palestine in order to show the Gazans that recognising and working with Israel had real and lasting advantages thus moving them away from a fascist organisation like Hamas.

Instead the continued illegal settlements the killings continued, the subjugation, the check points, the dispossession continued unabated.

At least Gazans have prevented that.

It will be interesting to see if once again Netanyahu glaims the right to take more of the Westbank as a result of the latest killings. He has certainly done it before.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I agree.

«I do find it depressing that Israel squandered the opportunity to set the Westbank apart.»

Maybe now they will, I pray, now that the Israeli government also includes members of the opposition and no longer tightly depends on Ben Gvir and his Nazi companions.

http://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1712729309104730163
Israeli strikes on the Mokhabarat (intelligence) complex in the Gaza Strip
(Levels a dozen 14 story buildings in 10 seconds)

http://twitter.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1712564300429038073
Absolutely incredible how Israel can just post pics of major war crimes on here daily and nobody says or does anything.
Context: Israeli Air Force - Dozens of fighter jets and helicopters attacked a series of terrorist targets of the Hamas terrorist organization throughout the Gaza Strip.
So far, the IAF has dropped about 6,000 bombs against Hamas targets.

http://twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1712575252625080615
This is what Israel is doing in Gaza (More dead kids and toddlers)

http://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1712458867446305139
Israeli settlers share videos teasing Palestinians inside #Gaza, who have been denied access to water, electricity, and internet by Israel.

http://twitter.com/utdshows/status/1712493467773915363
This Palestine boy deserves an Oscar award
(This will go viral)

http://twitter.com/KimJongwins/status/1712501897851003031
After indiscriminate Israeli occupation force bombing. Palestinians rush to find survivors. They hear the cry of a baby and use their bare hands to shift rubble.
They find the baby alive but injured. Saved by its dead mothers embrace!

http://twitter.com/oyoo_habib/status/1712677899734552671
I have a genuine question. Is being Pro-Palestine same as being pro-Hamas. Is being pro-Israel same as supporting genocide of Palestinians? It looks like things are twisted in this Israeli-Hamas conflict. Is it Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

http://twitter.com/dana916/status/1712647958078853210
"Netanyahu is finished" - journalist Seymour Hersh
"He's a dead man walking. He will only stay in office until the shooting stops. Maybe another month or two," Hersh wrote.

http://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1712605328477704567
Israel now has used white phosphorus in military operations in Gaza and Lebanon, putting civilians at risk of serious and long-term injuries.
White phosphorus causes excruciating burns and can set homes afire. Its use in populated areas is unlawful. - Human Rights Watch

http://twitter.com/TorahJudaism/status/1712517806443438546
Israel has certainly become a country where Antisemitism is on the rise. Zionists are constantly attacking Jews mercilessly. See how a Zionist official brutally attacked a Jewish man.
Zionism is a new form of Antisemitism today.

For the first time since the Yom Kippur war, an Alef40 order has been given in Israel, meaning that the military must be guided by military considerations only, without asking the political leadership for permission. Look out Hamas. They are coming for you.

Disgusting! It has now been confirmed by reliable sources that thousands of rockets fired into Israel by Hamas were manufactured in United States of America, and siphoned off by Ukrainian criminals, then on sold to Hamas. America in its rush to arm Ukraine to attack the Russians exercised no oversight into where their missiles ended up. Seems many were fired at, and killed innocent civilians in Israel. When you have an ally like America, the greatest arms dealer in the world, who needs enemies!

I wonder who these "reliable sources" are. Not reliable enough to be named it seems. No way to test their "reliability", and what they actually "confirmed".

The president of the Australian Palestinian Network, Nasser Mashni, has staunchly defended the Hamas murderers.

The pro-terrorist riot mooted for this weekend in Sydney is supported by Greens Senator, Mehreen Faruqi, and Greens state MP, Jenny Leong, with Greens state MP, Sue Higginson.

Remember those names at the next election, and ponder where the Fifth Column is in Australia.

Nothing from from Adam Bandt about these Far Left lunatics he leads.

Australians, if they haven't already done so, need to realise that the Greens are not a lovey-dovey environmental party: they are latter-day communist monsters, who must be voted out of existence.

We all know from archival material presented in books,
from the vast amount of works written on the subject
from news sources today, - from friends and relatives
who've visited the regions and from people who live there
that this is a conflict in a region of the world where
there's been a long standing dispute, long standing
suffering and violence on all sides.

If only a just and enduring solution could be found which
recognizes the legitimate aspirations of both the Jewish
and Palestinians peoples.

After the Hamas attack the United States sent weapons and
warships to support Israel. Israel is the largest
cumulative recipient of US assistance since WWII, giving
billions in aid to Israel every year.

Israel receives billions in foreign military financing from
the US> In addition to getting more US taxpayer-funded weapons
than all the countries combined Israel is also singled out
for special treatment that makes this allocation even more
valuable - it receives its allocation in unique circumstances
and is able to spend the allocation on its own weapons industry.

We know that tensions between
Israel and the Palestinians have existed since before the
nation's founding in 1948. That thousands of people on both
sides have been killed and many more injured in the long
simmering conflict between the two sides over decades.

Violence has been particularly heightened this year. The number
of Palestinian militants and civilians killed in occupied
West Bank by Israeli forces is at its highest in nearly two
decades. The same is true of Israelis and foreigners - most of
them civilians killed in Palestinian attacks.

Elan Pappe renowned Israeli historian offers impressive
archival evidence in his book - "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine,"
to demonstrate that from its very inception a central plank
in Israel's founding ideology was the forcible removal of the
Indigenous population.

With Western support, especially that of the US - it's now
beginning to look like this is going to be achievable unless
the world says - "Enough. This must stop now!"

There is no victory with the slaughter of innocent people.

Perhaps the world should have said " "Enough. This must stop now!" BEFORE they started beheading babies.

http://twitter.com/ytirawi/status/1712607593917452582
71 whole Palestinian families have been wiped off from the Palestinian Civil Registry, which is under Israeli control.
These 71 family names no longer exist.

http://twitter.com/LBC/status/1712526558890545496
Conservative MP Alicia Kearns tells Andrew Marr that Israel need to follow their duties 'under international humanitarian law,' and says for the UK to continue its support 'they need to stop the siege.'

http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1712742182044496181
Palestinian girl kept closing her ears even after she’s arrived at hospital. #gazagenocide

http://twitter.com/onlydjole/status/1712555550091915645
Hamas is undoubtedly a terrorist organization that no normal person supports, but the Palestinians are asking a legitimate question to everyone in the West:
"If each of you were to put yourself in our shoes... how would you feel about this?"

http://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1712724199477846316
Israel expresses 'deep disappointment' regarding China's statements regarding recent developments.
The Chinese demand is an independent Palestine within the 1967 borders

http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1712729439983858025
Former senator Ron Paul: “Israel created Hamas”.
In 2009, Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) said on the House floor that Israel
‘encouraged and started Hamas.’

http://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1712689035984925118
Video from a school in Israel:
“Al-Aqsa mosque will collapse, explode, disappear.”
“I feel I want to kill them [an Arabic kid].”
“There will be Arabs, but they will be slaves.”
“There will be a massive war and all the Arabs will die.”
What are they teaching these kids!?

http://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1712456762366857349
They’re literally trying to kill every Palestinian in Gaza…

http://twitter.com/ChiefTrumpster/status/1712682049859948855
There is an alert that has been sent to the Gaza civilians to leave North Gaza.
1.1M PEOPLE LIVE THERE.
THERE IS NOWHERE TO GO. ISRAEL WILL BOMB THEM ALL.

http://twitter.com/REVMAXXING/status/1712732635724644362
Israeli Airforce videos of their night bombing on Gaza civilian buildings.
Israel is a terrorist state.

http://twitter.com/bhagalsanju/status/1712752119076495620
Massacre followed massacre. Dozens of families are now being wiped out

http://twitter.com/raya7373/status/1712750334169260087
His last message before he was killed by terrosirt Israelian air strike

http://twitter.com/ElonMuskAOC/status/1712626538343256207
Crazy footage from Palestine…

http://twitter.com/famefeeds/status/1710864828061933784
Keep on praying for Palestinian (Children - more dead kids)

http://twitter.com/HKX07/status/1712569341953400835
Whist MSM continues to spin the Israeli propaganda war machine “40 babies killed” without any evidence;
Here is a video of ANOTHER Palestinian infant killed in Israeli war planes funded by the west.

A picture is worth a thousand words....

http://instapundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/IMG_4745-600x318.jpg

Another name for NSW voters to remember at their next election is Yasmin Catley, Police Minister, also responsible for anti-terrorism (seriously), who is now denying that she advised Jews to stay at home, and that she OPPOSED the lighting up of the Opera House in Israeli colours.

Premier Minns, who has shown up as being responsible and reasonable so far, really needs to do something about that woman, who came out from council library shelves to a position she is not fit for.

AC

You must have a lot of spare time, fossicking out all those videos that most of us are not going to watch. You have always made your thoughts and opinions clear, which is what OLO is all about. But, lining up where you got your thoughts and opinions from - plus thoughts and opinions that are the same as yours, is not going to make a jot of difference to posters who have different thoughts and opinions.

Given what can be done with AI these days, no one and nothing can be relied on unless they are well known to you - friends, family, and well-known public figures, for example; plus what you actually see in real time, real life.

Give yourself a break. You gain nothing by trying to put people 'right'. Nothing you come up with in my case, for one example, will change my mind on Israel and Hamas terrorism. It is obvious that other posters are the same on both sides of the argument.

Talking about one picture being worth a thousand words?

The link given below is worth a read. Although it's not
recent, it's relevant to what's happening today.
It reminds us that the conflict
can only be resolved with negotiations based on mutual
recognition and compromise.

Another reminder of how urgent that task is:

http://theguardian.com/world/2008/dec/18/israelandthepalestinians-pressandpublishing

"Eyal Waldman, the Israeli high-tech magnate, astounded the tech industry and the entire Arab world by creating research and development centers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, all while employing hundreds of Palestinian developers. On Saturday, Hamas murdered his daughter Daniel."

Appeasement never works.

Hi ttbn,
'she OPPOSED the lighting up of the Opera House in Israeli colours.'
- I actually oppose that as well. If you're against pro-Palestinian Muslims going on a rampage, then it's ill-conceived and reckless to stir the pot.
Beyond that I don't wish to see any virtue-signally crap like rainbows, indigenous flags or even worse foreign countries plastered all over the Opera House.
Aussie colours or an Aussie flag or NOTHING.
It's all just divisive and will lead to inevitable conflict.
- That's my opinion on it, and you're very much entitled to disagree.

"You must have a lot of spare time, fossicking out all those videos that most of us are not going to watch."
- It's not important to me whether or not people actually look at what I'm presenting. And while some may consider this as being divisive and stirring the pot (which I just argued against) I feel the greater good is served by showing dead civilians and children.

More to the point, millions of people are viewing all this stuff, and so sharing it gives everyone a better take on what is actually happening and what the people of the worlds response is to it.

Beyond that, I could fill my thread comment quota daily and it still wouldn't cover all the horrible scenes that I see.

I hope the images of dead babies and kids makes everyone sick to their stomach enough to stand opposed to it.
When these scenes go unchallenged, that's when we stop being human.
Take note that I also did post images of dead Israelis when this started several days ago, and if I find more of that content I'll post it as well, but right now the space is full of images of dead Palestinian kids.

The cause of this conflict is the Israeli occupation, and the cause of the Russia / Ukraine conflict is the Wests expansion of NATO into Ukraine.
This is the reason why millions of people are dead.

Village idiot,

More lies I see. Firstly the US military does not make or use the types of rockets being fired by Hamas at civilians so they can't supply them.

Your lies are disgusting.

I see that Hamas is preventing civilians from evacuating from North Gaza because it needs its human shields.

"Appeasement never works."

That is so typical of the one-sided biased mindset of supposedly Christian or Israeli supporters.

Was the real motive 'unity', or was it 'scab labour'.
You keep them in a concentration camp for 75 years - (generations) and call them animals.
(When the truth is if you kept me in a bloody concentration camp for generations killed my family and used food, water and electricity as weapons against me then I'd probably end up eventually acting like an animal myself, thank goodness I don't live there)
And you expect them to be grateful being used as cheap labour?
- Slaves of the Jews, just exactly the way the Israelis teach their kids the Palestinians purpose is?
Appeasement? That's shameful.

The Israeli occupation spits in the face of my Great Grandfather a 1st Australian Light Horseman and all the other ANZACS that fought in the second battle of Gaza in 1917, and other places (Gallipoli)

To keep the place a concentration camp for all these years is a complete disgrace.
I seriously doubt that he fought for endless suffering.
What the Zionist State of Israeli has done there and continues to do is worse than anything that was ever done to them.

The situation was summed up by Israeli Prime Minister
Netanyahu who said in a nationally televised address:

"What we will do to our enemies in the coming days will
reverberate with them for generations."

"We have only started striking."

Israel has increased air strikes on the Gaza Strip and
sealed it off from food, fuel, electricity and other crucial
supplies. The relentless airstrikes has levelled buildings,
bodies are accumulating everywhere.

Israeli military summoned 300,000 reservists. A massive
mobilization in a short time - threatening greater destruction
in the densely populated impoverished Gaza Strip.

Conditions will continue to fester and produce cycles of
violence while people continue to take sides, finger-pointing
at each other.

When will we all yell in unison - "Enough! This must stop!"-

This needs to be resolved by mutual recognition and
compromise.

If only a just and enduring solution could be found which
recognizes the legitimate aspirations of both the Jewish
and Palestinian peoples. What we are seeing now - nothing
justifies the violence, the taking of hostages, the killing
of people, the awful scenes being engaged in.

An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

"I see that Hamas is preventing civilians from evacuating from North Gaza because it needs its human shields."

Tell me Charter Boat...
Does this look like Hamas is preventing them from leaving, or does it look like Israel is actively bombing the women and kids trying to leave?

This is before:

http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1712994302203162813
Palestinian convoy bombed by Israel minutes before the bombing has emerged.
The majority of the convoy appears to be made up of children and women
In Israel's attack, 70 Palestinians in the convoy were killed, and more than 200 Palestinians were injured.

And this is after:

http://twitter.com/DagnyTaggart963/status/1712962533412295101
Previously, the Israeli authorities themselves ordered the Palestinians to leave the north to south of the Gaza Strip.

What Hamas did the other day should be denounced
(no-one in good conscience can support the killing of innocent people);
Even though you have to put it into perspective
- Which is 'The Zionist State of Israel will never change their policy unless 'forced' - that's a fact.
But what Israel is doing right now are the worst kind of war crimes I've seen, and millions of people are seeing it and will see it.

I have 2 questions bugging me.

The first relates to whether Israel knew the attack was coming, allowed it to happen in order to capitalise from it.
There's only 2 options here, they knew or they didn't.

The second relates to whether Hamas did it on purpose in complete anticipation of the inevitable heavy handed response, knowing that with today's social media Israel's response (and nature) would be laid bare for all the world to see, and that public opinion might turn against Israel and that might lead to change.

I got heaps more dead women and kids to show.
Maybe you all need to see some more.

'There's only 2 options here, they knew or they didn't.'

They knew something was coming, they just underestimated the size, and impact on the world community.
Best laid plans of mice and men

'Should we get involved?'

In what?
Australians can't decide on a simple vote as 'the voice' and you ask the question as to whether we should get involved.
Who are you going to help? the dead children?
Should have given it some thought a long time ago.
Best we can do now is send over coffins 'cos they're going to need a lot of them.

It is bizarre, even for a Leftist ideologue like Penny Wong, to call for "restraint" when dealing with people intent on killing you.

Now, even Captain Mainwaring of Dad's Army - aka Mike Burgess of ASIO - is bleating for people to "tone down their language" because of "opportunistic violence" in Australia.

There is no room for 'nice and polite' after a terrorist attack on a democratic country. It has to be all out wham bang on the part of Israel, with the added backing of the U.S Sixth Fleet in the area, and Biden's warning for "third parties" to keep out. The U.S presence seems to be a warning to the terror-sponsor, Iran, and Hezbollah.

There can be no restraint against against child-murderers and rapists, and while it is distressing to see Palestinian children (all children are innocent) traumatised, injured or killed in Gaza amid the ruins of their homes, it has to be remembered that Hamas received the largest share of the vote from their parents and elders in 2006. They've had 17 years to at least try to mend their mistake - if they do admit it was a mistake, and didn't expect Israel to continue giving their terrorist leaders the kid glove treatment.

Russia recognises Hamas as the representatives of Palestinians, and it has been observed that some of Hamas's tactics are like those of the Russians in Ukraine. Hamas thugs pop in and out of Moscow all the time.

Lucky for Israel that Russia is otherwise engaged, and probably short of rubles to add to Iran's rials. Although, the U.S might have to cut back aid
to Ukraine, if Israel needs help for long; which would help Russia.

In the meantime, useful talks between Israel and Saudi Arabia (which Iran does not like) are being held up.

Baldrick,

Were those even the same vehicles? You have lied so many times before I don't see 70 dead. Maybe they were Nazis or the Palestinians bombed themselves?

Analysis of the weapons used by Hamas indicates that they are overwhelmingly from Russia and China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyp03W2SXyc

The Australian Government gives $32,000,000 of our money to Hamas every year. According to ordinary Palestinians, they are not getting the benefit of it; they are getting nothing from Hamas. But, again, most of them voted for Hamas 17 years ago, and no Australian money whatsoever should be going to Gaza.

Village idiot,

There is nothing in your YouTube that refutes the claim that American made rockets are being used by Hamas to attack Israeli civilians. The interview between a sycophantic American journo on American CNN and a Israeli warmonger carries not weight, as far as I am concerned.

As an American apologist you will tell all sorts of lies to cover up these atrocities being committed.

A clarification.

Australia does not support Hamas.
A terrorist organization. It has strongly condemned
the recent attack on Israel.

According to the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs
and Trade, Australia is providing humanitarian support
through multi lateral humanitarian partners including the
United Nations Relief and Work Agency for Palestinian Refugees
in the Near East (UNRWA), the United Nations Children's Fund
( UNICEF), and the International Committee of the Red Cross
(ICRC).

These partners are key to delivering essential services to
vulnerable Palestinians.

The Australian government has pledged an estimated $32.2 million
to the Occupied Palestinian Territories in 2023-24 through it's
multi-lateral humanitarian partners.
Australia's development cooperation and humanitarian assistance
is a practical demonstration of Australia's genuine commitment
to peace in the region.

Australia remains committed to a 2 state solution in which
Israel and a future Palestinian state coexist in peace and
security within internationally recognized borders.

Post-truth mhaze,

Eyal Waldman hasn't given up on peace.

"The death of his daughter and Shay and the scope of the attacks and counter-attacks dominating headlines in recent days have not changed Waldman’s hope for peace in the future, he said, but not the near future. He believes this time, the violence “took us back several years, if not decades.”

“We need time to build the trust, if at all, between the two nations and start working together to be able to talk about peace,” he said."

Both his daughter and her boyfriend met in the army. They are trained fighters.

At the same time Herzog is claiming there is no innocent civilians in Gaza.

"Israel’s president Isaac Herzog claimed in a press conference that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, while thousands of Palestinians struggled to flee northern Gaza after Israel’s military told some 1.1 million of them to evacuate south ahead of an anticipated military operation.

“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday, October 13, that HuffPost reported on.

“It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”"

Disturbing distinctions.

Hi Foxy,
"Australia's development cooperation and humanitarian assistance
is a practical demonstration of Australia's genuine commitment
to peace in the region."

I don't know about that Foxy, it seems more like paying for the Israeli's occupation / prison costs.

The Palestinians have a slightly better life in their concentration camp, and Israel gets to steal more land.
- And nothing will ever change.

I'd rather the government spent 32 million promoting BDS or Israeli War crimes efforts, or even better spend 32 million on the needy in this country.

So what next...
Is Israel planning on driving the Palestinians into the sea?
They did say they were going to 'fundamentally change the middle east'...
Are they planning on launching the ground offensive to annex northern Gaza?
Are they planning on pushing the whole lot of them into Egypt and taking the lot?

What are the odds?

Dear Critic,

«What are the odds?»

This depends whether Hezbollah will also get significantly involved in the war - if they do, then in a matter of weeks Lebanon's population will increase by 2 million people.

Lets assume then that Hezbollah will stay out:

Israel is not interested in Gaza and my bet is that it will not annex any of it.

Rather, Gaza will be combed a few times through in order to find and kill all Hamas members and supporters and destroy all tunnels, weaponry and weapon factories. Also in order to find and release all Israeli hostages, alive or dead. To facilitate this comb, one section at a time, the population will be ordered to move north and south a few times.

During the comb, the majority of buildings in Gaza will be destroyed, mostly from the air, that is because the last times Israel entered Gaza, nearly every building was trapped, killing many Israeli soldiers. Unfortunately, those who refuse to vacate are unlikely to survive, even if innocent.

The Gazans could avoid this destruction and death if only some genuine local body of people was willing to take over and conduct this comb themselves.

Once Gaza is cleaned, Israel and the international community will install and support a new administration for the remaining people, by the remaining people and/or by Egypt.

So long as Gaza remains clean of terrorists, it will enjoy the same comfortable conditions it used to have before Hamas took over it.

This discussion goes around and around without taking into account of
the demands of Islam. This attack on Israel was as certain as the sun
coming up tomorrow.
You all need to read the Koran. then you might understand what has
been going on for the last 1400 years.
It boils down to this; The world belongs to Allah and moslems are
expected to impose Islamic governments on all of it.
It really is that simple.

"You all need to read the Koran."

Why is one religion better or worse than another?

1879 letter from Baruch Levy to Karl Marx:

The Jewish people as a whole will be its own messiah. It will attain world dominion by the dissolution of other races, by the abolition of frontiers, the annihilation of monarchy, and by the establishment of a world republic in which the Jews will everywhere exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this new world order the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the Jews. It will then be possible for the Jewish rulers to abolish private property, and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state. Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which it is said that when the messianic time is come, the Jews will have all the property of the whole world in their hands.

Published in La Revue de Paris p. 574...

Now I don't know if the claimed letter is true or not, and I don't wish to sound all 'Jewish conspiracy theorist'...
but I know Orthodox Jews look forward to the Messianic age, Moshiach and have Noahide Laws for the Gentiles..
- and all that stuff is easily verifiable.

As a regular non-religious Australian, which part of either of those religions and world changing plans do you think I might find appealing?
Answer = None...

Village idiot,

What the video shows is that all the weapons carried by Hamas that could be identified were Russian or Chinese. There is zero evidence that US-made weapons were being used and neither you nor Baldrick have provided any evidence.

As a Hamas/Putin/Xi apologist, you have no problems lying about this or anything else. What with the Greens loving murderous dictators?

SR disputes the truth of what I wrote about the daughter of Eyal Waldman and then proceeds to confirm my post. Go figure!!

Here and elsewhere, SR has been trying to justify the civilian massacres perpetrated by Hamas on the basis that those killed were somehow connected to the IDF. What's next? Those beheaded babies were going to grow up to be IDF fighters and were therefore legitimate targets?

Leading Jews in Australia have given up on the two state nonsense. Hopefully, the Israelis will also finally reach the conclusion that Palestinian terrorists Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Lebanon have no interest in sharing with them. These hate-filled lunatics want to wipe Israel off the map; they have said so. Some people are too stupid to believe them.

The latest atrocities should be enough for even the stupid to see that the anhilation of terrorists, the end of treating Iran and other terrorist states as normal countries that can be safely dealt , is the only way.

'Those beheaded babies were going to grow up to be IDF fighters and were therefore legitimate targets?'

Must be the same beheaded babies Iraq was accused of in the Kuwait theatre.

Dear Ttbn,

«These hate-filled lunatics want to wipe Israel off the map; they have said so.»

Yes, but:
1) they can't.
2) after this war they will be dead anyway.

«Hopefully, the Israelis will also finally reach the conclusion that Palestinian terrorists Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Lebanon have no interest in sharing with them.»

Israelis always knew this. It is trivially obvious and always was.

Regardless, having killed the terrorists, Israel should leave these cursed territories, for its own good. No negotiations are needed with those who cannot be trusted anyway. Of course, if they be stupid enough in future to attack again, even throw a stone across the border, then they will surely be wiped off again.

Jenny Price, a Jewish journalist writes in "The Canberra
Times,"

"Just to let you know there are many Palestinians who do
not support the murderous rampages by Hamas."

"No sane person would support the wholesale slaughter of
civilians than any of us would."

"And anyone who thinks otherwise assigns sentiments to
Jews and Arabs based on idiotic and harmful stereotypes."

She argues that often people battle with telling the
difference between Judaism and Zionism. For years
progressive Jews have not supported the continued land
grabs in Gaza by Israeli governments. They haven't supported
Gaza being under siege for two decades. Many on both sides
have yearned for a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

With the recent Hamas attack things are not looking good.
Extremists on both sides have now come forth and the
conflict looks like continuing.

We've seen the power of hatred throughout the world.
The dangers of extremism are evident.
Australia seems to be taking the right approach by not
condoning extremist behaviour and providing help to
vulnerable people where it can.

"‘Your Moral Compass Is Broken’ if You’re a Lefty Siding with a Regressive Terror Group over Progressive Israel"

http://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/10/14/maher-your-moral-compass-is-broken-if-youre-a-lefty-siding-with-a-regressive-terror-group-over-progressive-israel/

Israel has no one to blame but itself:

http://middleeastmonitor/20231009-israel-has-no-one-to-blame-but-itself/

There you go folks. You've now been given two links that
give you two different perspectives.
And we wonder why the resolution of the conflict is nowhere in
sight?

Ooooops. I again left out part of the link
Here it is again:

http://middleeastmonitor.com/20231009-israel-has-no-one-to-blame-but-itself/

Your moral compass is broken if you can't comprehend that people living in Gaza are actually human beings as well.

Interesting episode on Foreign Correspondent, worth a watch.

Thank You Armchair Critic for your decency
and civility. And for always trying to see
both sides. It is appreciated.

On wonders how it can be asserted that Israel occupies Palestinian land when in fact there has never been a Palestinian state and indeed the very notion of there being a Palestinian people is a political invention from the 1960s.

"Your moral compass is broken if you can't comprehend that people living in Gaza are actually human beings as well."

It is actually possible to recognise that they are human and at the same time recognise that they are, or at their leadership is, the personification of evil. Walk and chew gum at the same time...you should try it one day.

On wonders how it can be asserted that Australia occupies Aboriginal land when in fact there has never been a Aboriginal state and indeed the very notion of there being a Aboriginal people is a political invention from the 1770s.

"On wonders how it can be asserted that Australia occupies Aboriginal land ...."

Indeed

A simple question to those who believe Israel has the right to exterminate Palestinian terrorists. Of the 2.3 million Palestinians living on the Gaza Strip, how many do you believe are terrorists and therefore should be exterminated?

Interesting interview of Netanyahu by Jordan Peterson on the Jewish state. Claims that the Jews were dispossessed of their land by the Arabs (refers to them as colonisers). Also claims that when Jews returned in the 1880s the land was barren and almost unpopulated (mentions a description in The Innocents Abroad). Then states that the Arabs came after the Jews got things established. Didn't strike me as a bad person or a liar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xLkjvZDsIU

Dear Paul,

«A simple question to those who believe Israel has the right to exterminate Palestinian terrorists.»

Yes, I am listening:

«Of the 2.3 million Palestinians living on the Gaza Strip, how many do you believe are terrorists and therefore should be exterminated?»

That is not a simple question.
I am not an expert and my wild guess is between 50,000 and 200,000 - I just assume that Israel's security forces know more precisely.

They not only terrorise Israel - they terrorise their own people, they make them live in fear, they impoverish them by taking everything of theirs for their war effort, for their tunnels and rockets, they force Israel to blockade also the ordinary Gazans and they throw anyone who dares to oppose them off the roofs of tall buildings, or shoot their knees for lesser resistance.

The rest of the Gazans, say the other 2.2 millions, perhaps only 2.1 millions if another 100,000 innocent people die during the fights, will be very relieved once Hamas is gone and will finally be able to have some life and freedom.

Dear Fester,

«Didn't strike me as a bad person or a liar.»

What Netanyahu says in this interview is a mixed bag - some is true, but some is repeating the lies of others and it is not for me to judge him whether or not he honestly believes these lies.

* Modern archaeological evidence shows that Jews (more precisely, people whose descendants were to later become Jews) indeed lived in parts of Israel for thousands of years, but 3500 years is an exaggeration.

* "King David", if he even existed, was only a small warlord, ruling over only 5000 people at the maximum. This legendary huge kingdom which he and his son, Solomon, presumably ruled, never existed - only Jerusalem (then much smaller than today's walled city even) and a few villages around it.

* Jews were indeed never expelled by the Romans, etc., but neither by the Arabs. A portion of them left voluntarily for economic reasons while nearly all others gradually converted to Islam in order to avoid the Jizya tax. The majority of so-called "Palestinians" are the descendants of these Jews!

* The land of Israel was sparsely populated in the 19th century, but certain parts of it more than others. Most people lived in a number of cities, including Jews who lived mainly in Jerusalem, Tiberias, and Safed. Most of the population lived on high ground because much of the land in the north and west along the Mediterranean sea had swamps and was infested by malaria, while the south was a desert.

* Arab population indeed increased in the early 20th century, but the main reason was that the Jews dried up the swamps and eliminated malaria and later also built pipes to transfer water to the desert. Another reason was the British take over in WWI from the corrupt Ottoman regime.

Hi Foxy,
"Thank You Armchair Critic for your decency and civility."
- No need to thank me, we all agree on some topics and disagree on others

Hi mhaze
"indeed"
What are you saying there, that people in Gaza are less than human beings in your eyes?
Like feral pigs or some other invasive pest species that we need to cull back the numbers every now and again?
In the spirit of Pauline Hanson 'please explain'
Go ahead mhaze... Why don't you tell us all what you REALLY think?

Look I'm certainly no great friend of Islam
Or even multiculturalism for that matter
I'm more ethics than religion...

Hamas is Muslim Brotherhood, its a competing Sunni Islamist ideology to Wahabism
Whereas Hezbollah is Shiite
I don't care for those religions and I don't care for the Jewish one either.

- FYI, I'm an Australian.
I like a cold beer every now and again, pretty girls in bikinis and a dip in the surf down at the beach, dogs, and lots of bacon.
But I still recognise that all these people are still human beings.
Not all Gazans support Hamas, but Israel will kill them nonetheless.

Here's what I watched earlier.
Stephen Walt (Professor of International relations Harvard): US, Israeli strategy on Palestine has failed
http://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-bottom-line/2023/10/12/stephen-walt-us-israeli-strategy-on-palestine-has-failed

Interesting he talked about the 2 state solution being potentially no longer viable because of settlement building, and he also talked about normalisation of the relationship between Israel and Saudi Arabia, as provocation that might have left Hamas thinking they had to act
(and I also wonder about David Singers HKOPS as a potential further issue)
Also interesting he wrote a book with colleague and friend John Mearsheimer

Interesting article here

The tragedy of John Mearsheimer
How the American realist became the world’s most hated thinker.
http://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/09/tragedy-john-mearsheimer
(disable javascript and you'll get past most paywalls)

http://twitter.com/Just_A_Tweeter_/status/1713158289289093544
>>"We will stay in Gaza. We will either die or be liberated."
Gaza residents appeal to Arab and Muslim countries for help ahead of the looming Israeli ground offensive.
At exactly midnight, the internet will be cut off in the Gaza Strip following the electricity.<<
(includes video)

These people don't look like Hamas or look like they're being forced to stay.
So don't say Hamas used the people as human shields later when Israel kills them all.

http://twitter.com/Just_A_Tweeter_/status/1713486332972990971
Health: 2,384 martyrs and wounded as a result of the occupation’s aggression in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
Gaza Strip: 2,329 martyrs and 9,042 wounded
West Bank: 55 martyrs and more than 1,200 wounded

Oh, and if anyone thinks I'm picking on some religions and not others,
Then here's the Pope acting like a true racist.
http://twitter.com/realstewpeters/status/1711048346914222529

Israel had a kind of support (maybe not the right word) for Hamas
- Because both Hamas and Israel rejected a 2 state solution.
Israel supported Hamas to divide the Palestinian people and undermine the PLO or later Palestinian Authority AGAINST the 2 state solution.

Some Muslims follow Jesus
War in Israel 2023 - My First Response
http://youtu.be/A1NGcBX2YDA

http://twitter.com/tom_username_/status/1713188483588571473
>>The child death toll in Gaza has now officially exceeded the child death toll in Ukraine. In just one week.

According to the UN, a total of 560 children have died in Ukraine, a substantial portion of which died from Ukrainian shelling in Russian controlled regions.
[Context]
BREAKING: UN International Children's Emergency Fund spokesman says over 700 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip so far<<

«Some Muslims follow Jesus
War in Israel 2023 - My First Response»

This fellow believes in everything.
He has every right to do so, it is not for us to change him,
but the very first thing he innocently says after blessing Allah, whose name truly deserves all praise,
is that both Jews and Muslims are descendants of Abraham.

Well, science and critical reading of the Bible show that Abraham never existed.

If you believe in these conspiracy theories and fantasies, then why not believe in Abraham too?
And if you believe that the Jewish Messiah has already come, a descendant of that brutal and evil warlord, David, then why not believe the Jewish orthodox version that he is still to come to rule the Jews?

And if you do not believe in Sheikh Imran, then why are you bringing his words to this serious discussion, as if to present a truth?

By all means, do follow Jesus: he was a great teacher and indeed a son of God if we can understand what that really means - but why follow all nonsensical superstitions that people later attached to him?

AC writes with, sadly, all the elegance he can muster: "What are you [mhaze] saying there, that people in Gaza are less than human beings in your eyes?"

Of coarse, that's not even close to what I said. There's wrong, there's very wrong, there's stupidly, monumental wrong, and there's what AC just did.

I had previously mentioned that "It is actually possible to recognise that they [the so-called Palestinians] are human".. which is the opposite of what AC asserted. But AC probably didn't read/understand that since he only reads those things that confirm his prejudices.

Cut the BS. Most of us are neither Jews (Israelis) nor Palestinians (Arabs).

Either you believe that a democratic country (the only one in the Middle East), should be allowed to exist without attacks from terrorists, or you don't. It's that simple.

The Labor Party is going to add another $10 million of our money to Gaza, says Wong, after declaring that they 'stand with Israel'. No they do not stand with Israel. And, before long, they will import more Palestinian "refugees" to chant "f... the Jews", "gas the Jews" in Sydney.

Unfortunately, the conflict is not all that simple.

I think that most of us believe in the right of Israel
to exist as a separate entity. However, Palestinians
certainly have the right to feel desperately occupied,
aggrieved, and angry.

For over two decades Gaza has been under siege. The
Palestinians were dispossessed of land, and then
increasingly dispossessed of more land.

Go back a few hundred years and you'll find both Jews
and Arabs lived in that region. Then Britain colonised,
mandated Palestine, split it into bits, carved off
Israel, and that was meant to be that.

There they were Israel and Palestine. And Israel was supposed
to be a haven. Room for both to exist. So what happened?
Progressive Israeli governments expanded their borders - or
as we say in Oz - they stole the land and Israel turned out
to be no haven.

People began battling in not being able to tell the difference
between Judaism and Zionism. For years many Jews have made it
clear they don't support the actions of Israel and its unfair
treatment of the Palestinians. They are sick of the walls, the
blockades, the unfair policies. They want peace in the region.

But peace will not be achieved for as long as extremists on
both sides are allowed to get into positions of power and
continue to commit atrocities against people.

Hi Yuyutsu,
I don't know if Abraham existed or not, I wasn't there.
- And it's not even important what I believe, what is important is what adherents of those religions themselves believe.

I've stated many times before that I'm more about ethics than religion, as a foundation for a moral compass and knowing right from wrong.
"Everybody has a right to live however they choose so long as they don't harm others."
I think all of the so-called 3 Abrahamic religions are flawed in their own way, and none of them are a true path to happiness or enlightenment.
In the previous I stated 'I like a cold beer every now and again, pretty girls in bikinis and a dip in the surf down at the beach, dogs, and lots of bacon.'
- In case you didn't get it, that pretty much makes me some kind of sinner by the tenets of each of those religions.

"And if you believe that the Jewish Messiah has already come, a descendant of that brutal and evil warlord, David, then why not believe the Jewish orthodox version that he is still to come to rule the Jews?"

Isn't the real truth of the Jewish Orthodox version that they aim not to rule over just the Jews, but to rule over all of mankind?
- Any search of Messianic Age shows it is not an Israeli era to come, but a global era to come.

"And if you do not believe in Sheikh Imran, then why are you bringing his words to this serious discussion, as if to present a truth?"
- I think religious beliefs play a serious part in this conflict, so trying to get a handle on that adds to the discussion, and again it's not what I believe it's what others believe and their hopes to make those beliefs a reality.

Why would I support a future that forces me to become a product of a religious ideology that makes one race privileged above all others?
- Isn't that the same thing we all just resoundingly voted 'No' to?

Australia should not get involved.
We need to set a good example of how a successful democracy operates.
A place where reason prevails.
And when I stand back and consider what is intended by the 'stronger' side in this debacle, I cannot help but feel there is a kind of over-kill about to take place.
Is is really necessary to prove you can be 'badder' than they?
I did have an idea that religious persons had a different approach?
It seems I was mistaken.

Unfortunately when extremists on both sides seem
to be in control, innocent and vulnerable people
end up paying the price.

A horrible situation years in the making.

Hi mhaze,

You said this:
"One wonders how it can be asserted that Israel occupies Palestinian land when in fact there has never been a Palestinian state and indeed the very notion of there being a Palestinian people is a political invention from the 1960s."

- Then I said this to mock what you said.

"One wonders how it can be asserted that Australia occupies Aboriginal land when in fact there has never been a Aboriginal state and indeed the very notion of there being a Aboriginal people is a political invention from the 1770s."

Then you quoted MY comment and responded with "Indeed"

indeed
adverb

1. used to emphasize a statement or response confirming something already suggested.

Your argument wasn't opposing what I said, it was in agreement to it.
Now I don't know how anyone else takes this, but to me it looks as if you first think Palestinians aren't worthy of recognition as human beings because they had no declared state or nation, and you think the exact same thing about the indigenous.

Saying this:
"It is actually possible to recognise that they [the so-called Palestinians] are human"

"It is actually possible"

- It sounds like your going out on a limb to just get to the obvious.

Which is 'They ARE human beings', it's not open to speculation.
It's black and white, there's no 'grey area' in between
- Whether they are pissed off Muslims, on edge and pushed to desperate acts or not.

It's not right to try to dehumanise these people when they've spent generations since the Nakba living in a concentration camp, simply because it politically convenient for you and others to embark on ethnic cleansing, in part for the benefits of on unethical religious global conquest.

The land in question is 'disputed', not occupied. People who know their history don't have the time or the interest to spell out the situation - and nothing to gain - so the ignorant will keep on squawking and repeating Palestinian propaganda, and spouting nonsense about "extremists" on "both sides". The fight is between a democratic country on one side, and a bunch of terrorists on the other. The terrorists started it, and now Israel must finish off the terrorists for good. Even then, Israel will probably never know peace, and they will have to constantly be on their guard as they used to be. They let their guard down this time, and they will most likely never do that again. They must get tougher.

Actually, the land is occupied.
And has been for decades. As people
living there and -
as historians have verified.
Hence the current conflict.

Just to let you know - there are many Palestinians
who do not support the murderous rampages of Hamas.
They do not support the wholesale slaughter of
civilians any more than any of us would. And the
same goes for Jews who do not support the actions
of their Zionist government.

Anyone who thinks otherwise unfortunately assigns
sentiments to both Jews and Arabs based on
harmful stereotypes. Most of us have always believed in
the right of Israel to exist as a separate entity however
we can also see that Palestinians certainly have the
right to feel desperately occupied, aggrieved and angry.

Anyone watching the TV News channels can see for themselves
the dire situation. And blaming just one side is simply
wrong.

You know why I'm not keen on religions?

Jewish religious prophecy says in the Messianic age, Jews will rule the world and make gentiles their slaves.

Look up 'Messianic age', 'Moshiach' and 'Noahide Laws'.
Why do you think there's stories like this:

First red heifer in 2000 years fulfills Biblical prophecy and signals ‘end of days'
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/first-red-heifer-in-2000-years-fulfills-biblical-prophecy-and-signals-end-of-days/ar-AA1gzsvK

Why are looking for the unblemished red heifer and aim to rebuild the temple of Solomon?
- Messianic Age.

I don't want to be ruled over by Islamists either.
Who here wants to be ruled over by religious theocracy?
Do we need another referendum?

And the Christians... they're so dumb that they'd blindly help Israel bring forth the Messianic Age...
- And just as a side note here that means ARMAGEDDON, or Malhama in Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Malhama_Al-Kubra

They're so dumb that they'd willfully consign the world to total destruction...
- In the hope the Jesus returns in their lifetimes.

That's how stupid it all is.

And as for US wars in the world, to which I oppose sanctions and overthrows (told you all many times before, sanctions are collective punishment and overthrows are a different form of Imperialism or conquest)
- what do you people know about the Neoconservatives?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_conservatism
"Neoconservatism is an American political movement that formed in opposition to the New Left. Many American Jewish conservatives either identify personally or have been categorized as Neoconservative;
Some Jewish conservatives in the west, especially those in the United States, ally themselves with conservative Christians under the perception of shared Judeo-Christian values.

Do you people even know anything about the world we all live in?

Here's their 'shared values':

Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran - "Kill them all! wipe them off the face of the earth"

What do you think this is all about?
Chilling letter written 150 years ago predicted both world wars and a third battle against Islamic leaders
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/chilling-letter-written-150-years-ago-predicted-both-world-wars-and-a-third-battle-against-islamic-leaders/news-story/e266a72972815e53e9c7aab009778796

I didn't make any of this up, but what's a regular Joe supposed to make of it?

Yeah yeah... move along nothing to see here AC's gone on another 'conspiracy rant'...

- Whatever -

AC,

This shouldn't be this hard for you.

I wrote that there never was a Palestinian state and that a people called Palestinians were an invention from the 1960s.

You tried to dispute that by drawing a comparison with aboriginals. But I agreed there was never an aboriginal state and that the idea of an aboriginal people was a recent invention. (Just for clarification, prior to white settlement aboriginals didn't consider themselves part of a vast aboriginal diaspora - indeed most didn't even know of other tribes apart from their immediate neighbours.)

BUT you then went off on some idiotic tangent with "What are you [mhaze] saying there, that people in Gaza are less than human beings in your eyes?" Saying there was never a Palestinian people doesn't mean I think they weren't people. That's just a dumb, indeed illiterate, leap of logic.

Let me try to make it easier for you. Prior to the 1960s there were a people who lived in the Levant who considered themselves Arabs. Then, for political purposes they decided it would suit their aims to call themselves Palestinian AND claim the land they wanted as Palestinian.

eg PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said this in 1977:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

As I've observed with you before, if you only read one side of the issue you only understand one side of the issue.

Hi AC,

We may be on different sides of the fence politically, but I agree, religious fundamentalism is extremely dangerous. As the Old Man said; "A bloke who believes God is on his side, also believes he can do no wrong, no matter what wrong he does." How true is that!

Another quote from the PLO...

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

Even the UN only 'considers' that Israel occupies Palestinian territory. So, when it is an historical fact that land is 'disputed', saying it is 'occupied' is ignorant denial, to put it mildly.

Now, I don't claim to know (or care) about every hectare of land in the area, but I do know that Israel left Gaza in 2005.

The conflict is unpleasant enough, without ignorant bigots shouting from the sidelines.

To answer to mhazes argument the simplest way I can...

'People lived there!'
- This is the point I'm trying to make.

When my Great Grandfather was there in 1917, he wasn't running around exterminating every man woman and child.
People lived there, and after the Ottomans lost, people still lived there.

To argue that these people didn't chop some wood, build a town hall, elect a chairman, had the ladies serving tea and scones, pass a motion for a founding document, decide to build a parliamentary building with elected representatives, decide an agreed name for their new country and seek international recognition....

Doesn't change the fact that people lived there, and had done for generations.

Your argument that they hadn't done those things seems to argue, "ah well, I guess we can just slaughter these vermin and claim the whole place as our own it'll all be mickey mouse and bona fide."

Australia has in part had to come to terms with it's own horrible history, but Israel is still doing it, no different then if we (as a comparison) were still running around killing indigenous people.

What Hamas did a few days ago to 'so called' innocent Israelis, (and I say so-called - because they knew what their government has been doing, and at minimum are indirectly complicit in it.

What Hamas did was no different to what Israel did to them in the Nakba.

And I'll tell you how full of shite the world is...

Vladimir Putin has been charged with war crimes for removing kids in a war zone for their own safety.
What then should Netanyahu and the entire government of Israel be charged with in Nuremberg-like trials when they have willfully killed more kids in a week than the amount of kids that have lost their lives in Ukraine during the entire Russia / Ukraine war?

I say Netanyahu and the entire complicit Israeli government should all face an international court for war crimes.
If any Israeli minister or public servant didn't support their own governments actions then they should've stepped down immediately.

Dear Critic,

«And it's not even important what I believe, what is important is what adherents of those religions themselves believe.»

Then you should state so before providing such links. Otherwise it is understood that Sheikh Imran also represents your personal views.

As far as I can deduce from that video (because I have never seen that fellow before), Sheikh Imran is just an attention-seeking dirty old man, and is anything but religious. As you now say that his views are not yours, I wonder why at all you had to introduce us to that idiot.

«I've stated many times before that I'm more about ethics than religion, as a foundation for a moral compass and knowing right from wrong.»

Ethics, a moral compass and knowing right from wrong are a foundation of religion. Without them, claims of being "religious" are just hollow words.

«I think all of the so-called 3 Abrahamic religions are flawed in their own way, and none of them are a true path to happiness or enlightenment.»

And I doubt why they are called "religions" in the first place - perhaps because despite all their flaws, there are still some individuals who manage to spit out their toxic/inedible shells and incorporate the inner sweetness of these three into their personal religion.

«In case you didn't get it, that pretty much makes me some kind of sinner by the tenets of each of those religions.»

We all are sinners so long as we are not yet united with God.
Your stated preferences do not make you any more sinner than myself and the rest of us.

«Isn't the real truth of the Jewish Orthodox version that they aim not to rule over just the Jews, but to rule over all of mankind?»

The accepted position of mainstream Judaism is:
"The only difference between this world and the messianic era is subjugation of the exiles to other kingdoms, from which the Jewish people will be released. However, in other respects, the world will remain as it is" - http://www.sefaria.org/Shabbat.63a.10?lang=en

[continued...]

[...continued]

«Why would I support a future that forces me to become a product of a religious ideology that makes one race privileged above all others?»

Just drop the word "religious" and then your statement makes perfect sense. Some hypocrites enjoy and benefit from describing themselves as "religious" and their claims as "God-given": if you don't like them to benefit from such lies, then don't believe them!

---

Dear Foxy,

«Just to let you know - there are many Palestinians
who do not support the murderous rampages of Hamas.
They do not support the wholesale slaughter of
civilians any more than any of us would.»

Very true. Some of these Arabs were also murdered in Hamas' despicable attack, some were hit by rockets from Gaza and some of them are loyal Israel citizens who now serve in the Israeli army and fight Hamas.

«And the
same goes for Jews who do not support the actions
of their Zionist government.»

And the same also goes for Jewish Zionists who do not support the actions of Netanyahu's present government.

Zionism is simply about the need for Jews to live in Israel, that's all,
not about treating others badly,
not about acquiring and occupying more land.
Some historical branches of Zionism did not even require a Jewish state.

I haven't read all the comments but thanks to Armchair Critic and ttbn.

Some thoughts-

The Hebrews are part of the 13 tribes of the Bible at some level they are the same people- perhaps they are really on the same side in a sense. Middle Eastern people have been invading Europe for thousands of years- remember the Persians.

Often the Hebrews are on the side of the Democrats- almost sounds like false flag- but they call the cash register The Jewish Piano. There are many famous Hebrew Communists including Marx, Trotsky, Marcuse, etc. Hebrews seem to play both sides against the middle in politics.

Both the Hebrew's and the Palestinian's are not Anglo's- and so in a sense are not part of Anglo-Australian's sovereign interest- but I suppose in the context of world stability there is an arm's length interest.

Broad Euro-Christian culture is derived partially from Judeic culture although in an adapted form (also heavily influenced by Roman culture)- so perhaps some believe that our interest lies in solidarity with Hebrews- but perhaps objectively it should be on an arms length basis.

The communist one world culture view perhaps puts them in opposition to Hebrew cultural preservation in Israel.

Just some thoughts.

"Ethics, a moral compass and knowing right from wrong are a foundation of religion. Without them, claims of being 'religious' are just hollow words."

Well you may think that, but I'll give you a realistic example of why I think that is untrue.

Let's start with the harm principle

The harm principle says people should be free to act however they wish unless their actions cause harm to somebody else.
- I say 'everybody has a right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't have a negative or detrimental effect (harm) on others.
- I also say that 'everybody has a a right of stand up for themselves when harmed by others' which means that if you harm others, you should expect criticism not be taken aback by it when it happens.

Religious people put religious doctrine into the space (in the human psyche) originally reserved for ethics, but they don't know the first thing about ethics, because they ascribe 'God's will' to that which is 'Man's will' whom was given 'Freewill'.

Let me give an example, during Covid I saw Jew, Christians, Muslims all still congregating despite the fact that doing so might spread the contagion to others. What did they all say. 'Jesus is the cure', 'God will protect me', 'If I catch COVID then that's God'd will'.

They did not give a shite if they were to spread covid to other people and that caused harm, they simply wrote off what they were doing (congregating in the middle of a pandemic) i.e. 'Man's will' (as an extension of 'Freewill') as 'God's will'.

They even complained, tried to defend their positions, and continued to do it, when other people (who may have been harmed by this practice through the spread of COVID and who criticised it - and had every right to)

They knew it was wrong, knew it had the potential to harm others, and continued to do it anyway.

So there's an example for you where I can say that religious people by and large do not know the first thing about ethics.

"Then you should state so before providing such links. Otherwise it is understood that Sheikh Imran also represents your personal views.

As far as I can deduce from that video (because I have never seen that fellow before), Sheikh Imran is just an attention-seeking dirty old man, and is anything but religious. As you now say that his views are not yours, I wonder why at all you had to introduce us to that idiot."

One persons terrorist might be another persons freedom fighter.
And one persons idiot might be another persons guru, and vice versa.
- And honestly he's probably not killing women and kids in Gaza, so one could do a lot worse.

I haven't watched him for years, but the video (about Israel) popped up in my youtube feed and so I thought I'd catch some kind of Islamic take on things.
Given the fact that a global jihad might be on the cards if Israel pushes it's luck I figured why not hear what he has to say.

"And I doubt why they are called 'religions' in the first place - perhaps because despite all their flaws, there are still some individuals who manage to spit out their toxic/inedible shells and incorporate the inner sweetness of these three into their personal religion.

- As for the bible, you could probably take out the sweet part
'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you', or 'Treat others the way you'd like to be treated' and throw the rest away, lest it might turn one brain into scrambled eggs, or mash potato.

I see religious people all twisted up, saying this verse is right because that verse says so. Justifying religion with more religion and their moral compass is spinning wildly like a ship in the Bermuda triangle.
Many of whom are talking out of both sides of their mouths calling for killing the enemies of Israel and hoping for WWIII - while telling us how righteous and godly they are.
- That's umm not very Christian...

Hi ttbn,
History is important, especially with conflicts, and especially more so with this one.
Maybe instead of looking at how things are today, and only look at that without putting it into a larger context you should take a look at how things were 'way back when' and ask how did things get to the way they are now.

Palestine 1920: The Other Side of the Palestinian Story
http://youtu.be/QUCeQt8zg5o

Watch 5mins of this and you'll get a small sense of what happened 75 - 80 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/live/KM5-qF91Ky4

>>In 1946 there was only 500 Jews in the Negev desert. In October of 1946 They carried out what called the 11 points operation where teams of Israeli soldiers would seize a Hilltop take control of it and then they brought in pre-fabricated buildings to create this Kibbutz and they'd be right next to these Arab Villages. In many of these places overnight this Israeli settlement shows up and they bring in people and they're just quadrupling tripling an order of magnitude increasing the Jewish population in the Negev but they were next to these Arab Villages and the Arab villages.
On this one Hillside Israelis took it over, didn't have any water so they're there on top of the hill, got no water the Arabs brought water to them and said here's water welcome our neighbors some of us aren't happy about this but we recognize the inevitability of this, we welcome you and then as 1946 turned into 1948 it became inevitable that Israel was going to take the Negev and so these Arabs all went to their Israeli neighbors and said hey um we're living in peace, so when this happens please let us stay here in our homes and the Israelis are all yep yep;
Boom the war came and they wiped them all out they went into the Villages of the villagers who gave them water and they killed the men took them into a Ravine and shot them they went house by house shooting the men in there; if this sounds a lot like what happened on Saturday it is EXACTLY what happened on Saturday but this time it's Israelis kicking down the door shooting the men evicting hundreds of thousands of these people, they called it the Nakba 'the catastrophe' they put women and children and the surviving men on trucks and shipped them to Gaza and then around Gaza they built a series of kibbutz to hold them in, keep them prisoner...<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

CM,

Your thin veneer of "even handiness" is easy to scrape away and exposes an extreme far right nationalist, whose only concern is a racists attitude of white supremacy. A sarcastic negative comment like' "they call the cash register The Jewish Piano" is designed to purvey the impression that ALL Jews are money grabbing thieves, Goebbels would be proud of you, distance yourself, but include yourself at the same time by using the word "they", who are "they"...YOU?

"Both the Hebrew's and the Palestinian's are not Anglo's" an implied put down, that the reader should as an Anglo themselves, regard these non-Anglo's as inferior and therefore unworthy, Gobbels would be proud of you, but he would have refereed to them as non German, same thing.

"so perhaps SOME believe that OUR interest lies in solidarity with Hebrews- BUT perhaps objectively it should be on an arms length basis." (my capitals) You attempt to wedge those uncertain folk into a justifiable anti-Hebrew stance. Maybe you should just see them as Communists and be done with it.

The Netanyahu government is ultra orthodox, ultra
Zionist. Its chabad supporters have made
Netanyahu the longest serving Prime Minister in Israel's
short history. They will continue to be bent on expanding
Israel's illegal Jewish settlements. And, to its deepening
its system of apartheid to increase its horrible
repression and violence in order to keep the Palestinians
down or force them out of their homeland.

That is the reality. However, in Israel dissatisfaction is
growing. It's now upon the Palestinians to exploit the
mounting Israeli dissatisfaction, alienation and bitterness
and to connect with those elements of the Israeli society
willing and able to fight along with them for a truly
egalitarian democracy for all people living in the regions
regardless of race, gender, or religion.

It's a big ask. And it requires the right leadership.
One can live and hope. Because things can't continue as they
are. I am hopeful and believe in the old adage:

"The darkest hour of the night comes just before the dawn!"

Did anyone watch Q and A last night?

Lidia Thorpe was supposed to be on the panel.
Instead Alexander Downer was her replacement.
And, he as always waded into his old patch
as former Foreign Minister in a characteristically
obnoxious and hamfisted way.

As if the Israeli situation isn't precarious enough
already. The repulsive man went on to spew about
retaliation totally unconcerned about the carnage to
innocent civilians on both sides.

He should not be given air-time. We don't need voices
with a total lack of compassion that cause untold
pain and devastation to thousands of innocent people
on both sides. We should not give these people a
platform to preach even further hatred and bigotry.

As the wheel turns, ever so slowly in this instance, but turning nevertheless, much to the detriment of the Israelis and the US.
On the current situation, as the polls will eventually show, Biden just lost his re-election.

Dear Critic,

«As for the bible, you could probably take out the sweet part
'Do unto others... and throw the rest away»

I was not referring to the Bible, but to the three Abrahamic so-called "religions". The Bible has more sweet content than what you mentioned, but overall on balance, yes, from a purely religious perspective I think that the Bible is more of a liability for these three groups than an asset.

«I see religious people all twisted up»

Well how do you tell that they are religious? Just because they say so?

«Boom the war came and they wiped them all out they went into the Villages of the villagers who gave them water and they killed the men took them into a Ravine and shot them they went house by house shooting the men in there; if this sounds a lot like what happened on Saturday it is EXACTLY what happened on Saturday»

Yes, it undoubtedly sounds like what happened on Saturday last week.
The only difference is that the events of Saturday last week actually happened.

Many Bedouin Arabs from the Negev are good Israeli citizens who even serve in the Israeli army, some of whom were awarded medals for their bravery.
Here are some Bedouin Israelis who were murdered on Saturday last week:

http://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/arab-israeli-hamas-attacks.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/hkj4bwqwt

The images coming out of the regions are quite
dreadful. And taking sides does not help.
Neither does finger-pointing or trying to
suggest that one-sides pain is greater than
the others.
Innocent people on both sides are suffering.
All we can do is pray and hope that this conflict
comes to an end and soon. Unfortunately it looks like
they don't have toe right leadership to put an end to
this carnage.

Cut the baby in half.
Put sanctions on both sides.
Kick Palestinians and Hebrews out of Australia that cause trouble.
The sanctions last until they can work it out- if one kills the other the sanctions stay.

We don't want to waste any more resources on these idiots than necessary

The US Hebrew lobby is quite powerful and probably influences US national policy. OTOH the western communist movement seems to be influencing western national policy in the other direction. No surprise that the west is divided. Nikita Kruschev did say that they would bury us- probably with the help of China.

On some levels the Hebrews and Communists seem to be on the same side.

It's interesting that the Palestinian's don't acknowledge Israel's right to exist- and some Australian Aboriginal's don't acknowledge Anglo- Australia's right to exist.

Both sides (Israel and Hamas) are looking for the perfect solution
- Which is ridding themselves of the other entirely.

Both sides are unwilling to compromise for an acceptable solution
- Which is '2 state solution'.

So... at this point, I'd argue that both sides need to be nudged in the right direction for a compromise, otherwise the status quo remains, nothing will change and the Palestinians will continue to be a stateless people living in a concentration camp.

But you all also know that I oppose sanctions and overthrows
Withholding aid for the Palestinians or BDS for Israel might be a form of sanction,
But you all know I don't support using money or trade as weapons.

So what can the world do to implore these 2 sides to accept a compromise in good faith?

I don't have any answers of what a path forward might be.
Do any of you have any thoughts or ideas?

Oh and one more thing I think we should take note of.

Even if you do away with every single member of Hamas it won't solve the problem of Palestinian militants.

Why?

- Because these people exist under occupation, and as long as that situation exists then any serving member of the IDF are legitimate military targets.

More to the point though, because of the occupation it won't matter if you cut off the head of the snake.
- Because another one is going to grow back, it's inevitable.

Britain in Palestine 1917-1948
http://youtu.be/hOJqLTc6RkU

Armchair Critic said "But you all know I don't support using money or trade as weapons."

Answer- One shouldn't tie one's hands behind their backs. Positive and negative reinforcement are the tools of negotiation. If you give up the tools you can't negotiate.

Obviously one needs to be careful in negotiation. Often a threat can be more powerful than the reality. The world is spending a lot of energy on this part of the world- probably because it has oil- a critical resource that drives world trade and wealth and power. Everyone seeks power- some use power more validly than others.

We need to find an alternative to middle eastern oil- then the middle eastern issues will solve themselves and they will be irrelevant in world affairs- sadly the middle east will continue to be a hot point due to it's strategic value- that means death and tragedy. If they were able to work together they could maximize the benefits to all while they last.

Geopolitics is often an example of "real politics".

The advantage of sanctioning both is that is gives them a common enemy- hopefully in time they would learn to respect the wisdom of that enemy.

There's still Suez to make The Middle East strategically valuable. The Middle East has often been the world middle man of world affairs. There are advantages and disadvantages in this. It means it is never stable- it has an effect on the psychology of it's people. Many battles throughout history have been fought in the Middle East between the mountains the sea the desert the cold north. We need to create other routes around the Middle East such as Panama. They need to be controlled by stability- but what that means changes.

Dear Canem Malum,

You really are some kind of weird automaton aren't you.

I'm imagining a big red button in the middle of your forehead that someone hits and you deliver a scripted piece and as they come out your software searches for the next one progressively getting more and more tenuous as you go.

Perhaps give it a break for a bit and let your internal servers cool down.

The Guardian newspaper today sums things up rather well:

"The scenes we're seeing unfold in Israel and Gaza mark
a new chapter in the Middle East conflict. The consequences
and scale of losses are already devastating and the recent
attacks and the war that now follows is likely to shape
global politics for years to come."

US President Joe Biden is travelling to the Middle East
to meet with leaders. Unfortunately the Palestinian
leadership has backed out of any meetings due to the
recent hospital bombings.

Things are not looking very hopeful. But we can all continue
to pray for a miracle.

Well between 500 and 700 dead after the bombing of the Baptist Hospital in Gaza.

A media spokesperson for Benjamin Netanyahu initially posted a tweet saying "Breaking: Israeli Air Force struck a Hamas base inside a hospital in Gaza. A number of people are dead. It is heartbreaking that Hamas is launching rockets from hospital, Mosques, schools and using civilians as human shields."

However after quickly realising the death toll was horrendous the same spokesperson has deleted their tweet and is now tweeting about "The mysterious explosion in Gaza" and blaming it either on a failed rocket or Hamas doing it on purpose to get international support.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/17a72nd/hananya_naftali_first_admits_to_israeli_bombing/

My goodness how quickly the lies come.

The recent bombing of the hospital in Gaza and
Israel's blocking food, water, fuel and any aid
to the Palestinians - makes it very difficult to
support what Israel is doing to supposedly "keep
it's citizens safe." Israel has used the excuse
for security now for decades while continuing in
its settlement expansions, land grabs, and its
appalling treatment of Palestinians.

The recent attack by Hamas was horrendous and
deserves world condemnation. But then so is Israel's
retaliatory tactics. They equally deserve condemnation.
The bombing of hospitals and banning of food, water,
and much needed supplies to civilians is inexcusable
and should not be condoned.

Hopefully the US President will be able to bring some
rational action to this conflict. Someone has to -
without giving a blank cheque to one side and
condemnation only to the other. Sanity needs to prevail.
Neither side is innocent here.

Hamas firing highly explosive rockets from right next to a hospital, what could possibly go wrong? A fully fueled rocket with a warhead could easily cause a huge explosion, and these homemade Katyusha rockets are not the most reliable. Also, Hamas lies continuously.

This war is entirely the fault of Hamas. Hamas started the war and the Israelis will finish it and eliminate these animals.

Hi SteeleRedux,
Thanks for the info.
I wanted to see some footage of the strike and some daytime pictures of the extent of the damage to try and figure out who fired it, before wading into the debate, but they haven't shown any care for civilian casualties in the last week and they already blew up a Mosque.

All I have right now is this, but I haven't looked too hard yet.
I don't know if the footage is genuine.
http://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714399005399011406

One thing for sure though, if Muslims weren't incensed by all this already they will be now either way.
Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordon, Iraq, massive rallies underway.
There's a flag of revenge flying in Iran for the first time ever.
http://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1714404591641481575

I fell asleep watching this last night.
Some interesting info, the host has followed this situation for years.
Israel Palestine War Explained
http://www.youtube.com/live/qPS4DgwJrp4

Shadow Minister,

You are not correct. Get your facts right.
News sources, the World Health Organisation,
and many other sources - have different facts to the
ones you are presenting regarding the hospital
bombing. Also refering to people as "animals" does not
help the situation either. Although certain Israeli
leaders have always thought of Palestinians as "beasts,"
who should be killed.

It doesn't help the situation.

Israel claims to have proof that the explosion in the hospital's carpark was caused by Islamic Jihad: http://www.ynetnews.com/article/bybbrb2zt

Perhaps the US should build a canal along it's southern border and solve two problems at once.

"This war is entirely the fault of Hamas. Hamas started the war and the Israelis will finish it and eliminate these animals."

I've said it numerous times now.
Until people are willing to take an honest look at the causes of these conflicts, and how things came to be, then conflicts are inevitable and will never be resolved.

Before you go pointing fingers, perhaps you should start here.

Britain in Palestine 1917-1948
http://youtu.be/hOJqLTc6RkU

And maybe here

Nakba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

Do yourself a favour and learn the history SM

Hi SteeleRedux,

This is interesting.
The same tweet as the one you showed from reddit purportedly from the Israeli minister, with the screenshot taken from a different device.
(Resolution of device is different, and tweet is not in dark mode)

http://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714358349607682270