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The Forum > General Discussion > What happens after China hits the skids?

What happens after China hits the skids?

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Dear David F.,

«I disagree with the Biblical saying of Jesus: "let he without sin cast the first stone."»

Jesus taught his disciples individually, as per the specific circumstances versus their own spiritual position. There is no reason to think that he intended his words to be published and become universal teachings for everyone at all times and every situation.

In that particular Biblical situation, a woman was caught in the act of adultery and was about to be stoned. If you disagree with Jesus, then does it mean that you would like adulterous women to be stoned?

Could Jesus tell the surrounding Pharisees straight in the face and in direct opposition to the words of the Torah, that no one ought to be stoned for adultery?
If he did, then he himself would have been stoned then and there!

Instead he achieved the same with clever words - the woman was not stoned, while at the same time he also made his opponents turn in and become introspective: a win-win solution.

As I understand it, being "without sin" pertains to the moment, not to past actions. We all did some wrong things in the past, but once one truly repents, even though they still have to face the consequences of their previous misdeeds, they are no longer carrying any sin.

Finally, there is a vast difference between stoning people and stopping to trade with them. The former is an active aggression while the latter is passive non-action.

I don't believe that humans have a moral mandate to punish other humans, but passively avoiding the company of evil is a great virtue, thus yes, all trade with China ought to be stopped.

For the others who listed other wrongful countries I say, yes, try to avoid trading with them too, if you can. And if you are unwilling to give up their products, services and cheap prices, then OK, that's human, but count this as your weakness rather than try to justify it.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 27 July 2023 11:22:22 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

I prefer that nobody should be stoned for any reason. It is a cruel and unusual punishment, and the 8th amendment to the US Constitution which I prefer to the words attributed to Jesus forbids cruel and unusual punishment.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 27 July 2023 11:32:23 PM
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Dear David F.,

Indeed, I wouldn't think that you would like any people stoned for any reason, and neither do I.
The difference between us seems to be that I do not require some human-made constitution to oppose all human-made punishments, usual or unusual.

I don't believe that Jesus wanted to punish anyone either, he just could not say so explicitly at the time - the Pharisees tried to trap him, so he was walking a tight rope. The Torah prescribes certain punishments and Jesus could not afford to be openly seen as someone who disregards the Torah.

At the end of the day, people who like to cause pain to others will find some verse or another to excuse it, be that from the Torah, from the Quran or from the American constitution.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 28 July 2023 1:46:22 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu

“For the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Very broad and open to interpretation. Nether sin nor death are clearly defined within the Bible. The one example above from Romans could have several meanings and outcomes. I am finding in fellowship with Christians, all unlike myself committed practising chaps, much contained within the Bible is open to conjecture and applied relative to today's prevailing thinking and social norms.

I recently posed the question; "Was it Christian to burn people at the stake for heresy in 1523? The response from the brethren ranged from an emphatic "no", to a "possibly", no one out rightly agreed it was totally Christian act. In the context of the time I argued that is was indeed Christian to burn people at the stake in 1523. I based that on the prevailing interpretation of the Bible at that time.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 28 July 2023 3:55:58 PM
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Dear Paul,

It all depends on how you understand the term "Christian", is it:

1) A follower of Jesus Christ.
2) A follower of the Jewish Nazarene sect and what historically became of it.
3) A follower of the Bible.
4) ?

The above are different.

To understand the original meaning of the words of saints and sages, one needs a living tradition, a live lineage or chain that connects them to the source. Unfortunately I am not aware of any such chain in the Christian tradition - maybe there is but I am not aware of it.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 28 July 2023 4:13:27 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

I prefer the US Constitution with all its flaws to the Bible, Koran, Tripitaka or any sacred book. The men who wrote the Constitution did not in general have the arrogance to claim they were inspired by a deity.

Eventually, the Constitution got around to freeing slaves. That outrageous document, the Bible, still hasn't come around to condemning slavery, and it won't. Unlike the Constitution you can't amend it. You can only mistranslate it.
Posted by david f, Friday, 28 July 2023 4:17:22 PM
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