Boaz, it is nice that you have a new member of your whack-a-mozzie club, but that doesn't change the fundamental wrongness of your campaign to vilify an entire religion based on individual experiences, however unpleasant those experiences might be.

>>PERICLES.. sometimes ur a prize dill.. the issue is not what YOU believe about other's holy texts, but what THEY believe... If 'they' believe they should embark on a course of action based on their own holy texts, you should have the genuineness to actually try to fathom 'what' they are basing there views on<<

I have always accepted, Boaz, that there is a noisy and harmful minority that chooses to support their criminal activities by insisting that they are only following their god's will. These can be, and are in fact, of any religious persuasion, as I have pointed out on numerous occasions. It is only your wilful blindness that attributes this kind of antisocial nastiness to one particular religion, while simultaneously holding your own to be entirely blameless.

I ask you once again, but always with no hope of receiving a coherent response - do you see yourself as part of the solution, or are you in fact yet another facet of the problem that is religious intolerance?

Do you, by your constant references to the evil that you see in the hearts of your religious opponents, see yourself as "guiding them towards the truth", or turning simple resentment into flaming hatred?

I fail to see how you can interpret your own actions as in any way, shape or form helping to enable people to assess the situation rationally. All you are doing is ensuring that the antipathy turns to outright hatred, and that the ensuing holocaust is simply a fulfilment of your prophesy, when it in fact has been caused by you.

Ginx, sorry to repeat a lot of what you have already said, but it is a message that needs to get through somehow, as I think you would agree.

Pericles, those individual experiences of Muslims who choose to hand in their badges and then suffer sharia-style justice at the hands of their Muslim relatives are starting to add up.

Just as it is not a terrorist act to support Jihad (note the peaceful act of Jihad called Da’wah) by Muslims, neither is it a fundamentalist position by Christians to warn against Islam.

The author of “Islam and Terrorism” writes:

“Today we are facing a most dangerous enemy to mankind... They are all reading the same playbook – the Quran. They want nothing less than to control the world and submit it to Islam. They want Islamic authority to be the only form of government in the world.
I do believe the responsibility of every person in the world is to speak out against this type of terrorism – especially the body of Christ.”

You dismiss this as radicalism, a stirring of the pot, rabble-rousing, dangerous, and fundamentalist thus dismissing the warning, from a man who was the imam of a mosque in Egypt, a graduate and teacher at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt. Only one incident of questioning his faith during a lecture led to being kidnapped by the secret police, tortured, stripped of his role, released under the strict supervision of his family after a year in prison, shot at by his father… forcing him to flee.

He continues “I encourage every believer in every part of the world to stand up and pray for Muslims and Jews’ pray for the light of Jesus Christ to shine on them. The battle is not ours; it’s God’s. But we are the children of God. We have to stand in the gap.”

Standing in the gap means doing what your conscience requires of you.

I think it a more likely outcome that one stray google result to BD’s postings from an Australian woman weighing up her options under Islam may help convince her not to pursue that path, than that hatred or violence will ensue.

Mind the gap (or, not).

Pericles,

I share your distaste of those who use Christianity to attack Islam. What they don’t realise is they are different sides of the same coin.

However, you are wrong when you say “.. factions practising a form of RANDOM terrorism, their activities fed … by the HATRED AIMED AT THEM”

1.) These groups have significant support throughout the Muslim World
2.) The attacks are anything but random. Their aim is to separate the moderate Islamic states from the West using a number of means. The first is to commit atrocities which are purposefully designed to invoke retaliation. Through this retaliation they can then point out to prospective recruits the ‘oppression’ of their people. The second is to inflict sufficient casualties on the West, so that combined with their propaganda we will be defeated by our own bleeding heart brigade. They rely on this inbuilt weakness which lefty’s like to pretend is our strength.
3.) Once we can no longer materially assist the moderate Islamic regimes the Islamo-Fascists will attempt to overthrow these gov’ts creating a new caliphate.

This type of Islamic Militancy has very little to do with the policies of the West, directly. It is about power and the domination of the Muslim world through a return of the Caliphate.

Have you forgotten that 9/11, the African embassy bombings, the attack on the USS Cole etc. all preceded any occupation or hatred?

Your comparison with the Tamil tigers etc. is specious. Al Qaeda is not a nationalist body by any stretch of the imagination Al-Qaeda is an international alliance of Sunni terrorist organizations.

I agree it is foolish to suggest that these groups are supported by all Muslims. This is patently not so, and in fact you will find that Iraqi militias are fighting Al Qaeda in Anbar province, Iraq.

There are even fewer supporters of Al Qaeda in Western countries like Australia and Britain. But if even 5% of the population actively supports Al Qaeda that means that in Australia they have 20 to 30,000 sympathisers to hide behind. Unfortunately this figure is much higher in Britain.

Hi there Ginx....

well you articulated your outrage quite extensively there and you did actually hit one nail fair and square in the head.

You portrayed a cycle.. where..

1/ Opponents of Islam expose or call the religion into serious question on a number of levels....

2/ This annoys the radicals.. but also the moderates.

3/ The moderates, now annoyed are more likely to side with the radicals.. everyone in the trenches so to speak.

What you have done in explaining this cycle, is actually outline Islamic history as it was. Once the Arabs became united, other nearby empires (Byzantine, Persian) realized they were a threat because of their political structure.. (Kaliphate) so.. friction.. polarization.. and finally war.

So..you have done a good job of recognizing the socio/historical picture.

The Important Question though "Is criticism of Islam contributing to greater radicalization by marginalizing the moderate/whole community"?

Possibly..but by how much is debatable. World events (Israel/Palestine) are far more weighty.
Also..the radicals seek to influence the moderates.. with threats. I've linked to the Canadian experience b4.

So..complex issue.. many angles.

Remember the TOPIC... its about a MegaMosque..and its influence. Statistics have been provided showing around 60% of UK mosques are run by radicals. This does not concern you ?
2% 3%...no biggy..but 60%...is a matter of serious concern.

I don't know why you vilify Cuchalain... he has 'been there'

Ginx and Pericles...

lets try to actually make some constructive progress here.

Questions.

1/ Given the much more pervasive influence of radical fundamentalism in the UK than in Australia, would you consider the tone and content of we 'Islam bashers' to be out of order if we were there ?

2/ If you do, could you please describe how the UK should handle this problem?

3/ Don't you think the UK has left it a bit late ?

4/ Is there any lesson we can learn from the UK experience which could be implemented into government policy which would reduce the potential for that to happen here?

Bear in mind, they have around 2000 radical Muslims under serious surveillance now.

We have a number on trial... bigger in proportion than the UK demographically.

Your advice is just 'shutup and it will all go away' ? (or.."the police will handle it")

On that last point, I think there is a political responsibility also to create a climate and policy which will promote unity and security.
We cannot have bad policy and consequently overworked police..

Political Responsibility brings it back to 'us'.. we the people :)

1)So..you have done a good job of recognizing the socio/historical picture.

1)So glad I have passed muster, master.

2)I don't know why you vilify Cuchalain... he has 'been there'

2)You didn't suss it did you? Neither did I. But now I have. You clearly have not; and I'm not going to bother to even attempt to enlighten you.

3)lets try to actually make some constructive progress here.

Questions.

3)Whose constructive progress? Questions?? I told you once before..........

4)we 'Islam bashers'

4)You said it...

5)Your advice is just 'shutup and it will all go away' ? (or.."the police will handle it")

5) Really? Where did I say that? You can't resist can you?

Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 20 September 200