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The Forum > General Discussion > The thin Red Line

The thin Red Line

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Russia set a number of red lines across which Nato should not step in order to prevent a direct confrontation with Russia.

The first red line was the provision of weapons to Ukraine. But Nato provided 1000s of high-tech anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles that were effectively used to slaughter Russian tanks and aircraft, deny Russia air support for its army, and stop its invasion dead.

The following red line to be crossed was the supply of 155mm howitzers that had more extended range and far better accuracy than the Russian howitzers.

The following red line was the supply of the HIMARS systems with an 80km range that quickly devastated Russian supply lines, airfields, and HARM anti-air defence missiles.

Next came glide bombs and then a stream of Nato tanks, and finally the go-ahead to supply F16s that are superior to any Russian aircraft. All Russia could do was issue the same feeble threats that it has done so much before

While Russia is weakening, Ukraine is getting stronger. Russia cannot win this war.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 4:51:12 AM
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Shadowminister,
I have the feeling whilst the vultures are busy gorging themselves on holograms, the bears are hibernating !
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 7:55:13 AM
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I do wish you'd stop making a fool of yourself shadowminister.

"But Nato provided 1000s of high-tech anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles that were effectively used to slaughter Russian tanks and aircraft"
- The US supplied stingers and Javelins (as well as the 155mm howitzers) were drawdown from Department of Defense inventories.
http://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine/

"The following red line was the supply of the HIMARS systems with an 80km range..."
- This worked well for a month or two until Russian Pansir S had software upgraded to intercept them.

"Next came glide bombs and then a stream of NATO tanks, and finally the go-ahead to supply F16s that are superior to any Russian aircraft."

Russia is using the glide bombs, Ukraine has GLSDB (Ground Launched Small Diameter Bombs fired from HIMARS) as well as JDAM and HARM missiles. Russia can intercept the GLSDB's and can jam the GPS of JDAM's and HARM's.

http://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-intercepted-glsdb-smart-bomb-ukraine-first-time-2023-03-28/
http://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/12/russia-jamming-u-s-smart-bombs-in-ukraine-leaked-docs-say-00091600

GPS-Guided Bombs Should’ve Been Ukraine’s Ace in the Hole. Then, Russian Jamming Stepped In
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a43591694/russian-jamming-gps-guided-bombs/
"Russia is probably the preeminent world power in battlefield jamming."

UK has supplied Storm Shadow missiles and Russia is taking them down easily as well.
Russia Says It Shot Down Seven Storm Shadow Missiles in a Day
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-down-storm-shadow-missiles-ukraine-1800618
>>Russia's military "intercepted seven Storm Shadow long-range cruise missiles, three HARM anti-radar missiles, and seven HIMARS multiple rocket launchers" in a day, the government department said in a statement posted to Telegram.<<

F-16's are a 4th generation fighter first flown in the 70's.
Russia has plenty of aircraft including about a dozen or so 5th generation Su-57 and superior air defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Russian_military_aircraft

What will happen to those F-16's is likely the same that happened to the US Patriot Battery recently, but it's a great way to clean out all European inventories and sell them F-35's.
- It's all about the money...
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 9:55:38 AM
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From something I read recently, NATO is no longer capable of stepping over a doorstep, let alone 'red lines'.

While Russia is "weakening" (according to the oh so reliable lefty MSM), Ukraine is having the crap blown out of it. Russia is not.

There is no winning or losing in this conflict.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 9:56:50 AM
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"While Russia is weakening, Ukraine is getting stronger. Russia cannot win this war."

Zaluzhnyi hasn't been seen, likely because he opposes a losing counteroffensive which US is demanding.
How many men did Ukraine lose unsuccessfully defending Bakhmut?
Maybe 50,000?
- Really sounds like they're winning.

Ukraine would've been finished a year ago if not for US military and financial help, which is starting to dry up.

Russia able to conduct its special military op for a long time — German intelligence chief
http://tass.com/world/1621465

US Air Force chief comments on impact of F-16s in Ukraine
http://www.rt.com/news/576738-us-air-force-chief-says-f16-not-game-changer-for-ukraine/
"Frank Kendall has acknowledged that American-made fighter jets won’t be a “game-changer” for Kiev."

Keep up the great work shadowminister.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 10:06:11 AM
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The only ones "winning" (on either side) are the military industrialists. The USA's supply system is severely deficient in all types of ammunition for small arms and there are rapidly depleting stocks for most other ordnance needed at the Ukraine battlefronts. The world lost when the first shots were fired.
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 1:36:05 PM
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