Further to my earlier post regarding female-initiaed DV, this little piece was in the SMH today http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/lifematters/smack-the-child-go-to-jail-parents-pressured-20090822-euef.html?page=-1

It contained this little quote: "School-aged children in Australia are twice as likely to be killed as their British peers, usually as a result of child abuse by their mother or her de facto partner, according to a study in the Medical Journal of Australia in January."

As I've pointed out on several occasions, the constant reiteration of "violence against women is never acceptable" is ignoring the fact that violence BY women is the major cause of violent death for children.

Not only that, but it absolves women of the responsibility for their own behaviours that may escalate situations beyond a shouting match. It effectively treats women as being so egregiously irresponsible as to be incapable of controlling themselves.

Seeking to make men entirely responsible for both their own behaviour and that of the women in their lives is counter-productive if the aim is to reduce violence.

Every boy learns at an early age that it is not wise to taunt those bigger and stronger than you as it is likely to end badly for you, even if he gets punished for it. OTOH, girls learn from an early age that they can get away with anything at all if they're in a group and if a boy reacts to their taunting, he'll be the one punished.

Some of them carry that lesson well into adulthood, especially with the constant reinforcement of advertising that is designed to make men more docile and women more aggressive. It says "violence against women is never acceptable" and "girls can do anything" but says nothing about "smart-mouthing a man because you think he's not allowed to retaliate is rude and ignorant" and will probably get you hurt...

Gawd pynchme you're such an angry woman. I was defending you and you decided to ava go. What's the problem, no comeback to my pointing out your year 6 debating tactics?

I think you may be right about antiseptic. I mean you'd know all about victims. You're definitely the person to go to whenever a judgement on victims is concerned.

'women cling to the safety of their homes'

Oh yes, I see them clinging. When I walk about the streets and bars at night, I never see any women.

'These are not occasional events for women - they are the fabric of every day life.'

I think they are the fabric of your everyday life, little miss victim. Most chicks I know aren't 'constantly looking over one's shoulder; to have to plan one's movements around daylight hours; being careful not to encourage conversations with people one doesn't know who might pose a threat,'

I did a quick survey of the women in the office. They all laughed one said you're a paranoid freak.

'Yet women still get blamed in most cases.'
Rubbish. Oh those violins are really warbling now!

'The biggest threat to the safety of men is OTHER men.'

Too right it is. That's why we avoid confrontation with those we know have the power to beat the crap out of us. And if we get in the face of a 6 foot 6 130 kg guy, and he flattens us, we accept responsibility for our own stupidity. If someone says 'hey that guy is much bigger than you, you shouldn't wind him up, we don't say STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM!' We say, yep, you're right, good advice. We don't bang on about how it's our right to taunt a gorilla.

I bet you're the kind of person who walks blindly out on pedestrian crossings, thinking if you get run over, you'll happily go to your grave knowing you were in the right. I'll continue to advise people to check for reckless drivers first.

Scheppele and Bart:

<... Because the risk of rape is perceived as controllable, at least in part, many women develop "rules of rape avoidance," ...elaborate descriptions of the rules of rape avoidance and how they followed them before they were attacked:

"If I'm not expecting anyone, I won't answer the door if they ring the bell. My name is not listed in the teiephone book or by asking the operator. If I find myself Through Women's Eyes 65 walking the streets at night, I always have my key in my hand so I can get someone with it as a weapon. If I'm a little bit nervous about the sidewalks being too narrow, I will walk in the middle of the street. If I see anybody—I guess I would not be nervous about a woman—but if I saw a man, or men, coming either from behind or toward me, no matter how nice they seem to be, or slow or old or young, whatever, I just avoid it. I either cross the street, or . . . just go into a store. I always thought that to avoid this, I would never be alone on the street, by myself. Or, if I had to be, it would never be on a darkly lit or quiet side street. I would never get in cars with strangers. And then, 1 never did talk too much to a strange man, regardless of whether they were my age or older. You don't go into vestibules with men. You walk down the middle of the street at night. You take the minibus to get back to your apartment. You don't let strangers in. You ask for identification. I would watch what I would wear . . . in the summer . . . And I never walk around, you know, seductive . . . I don't make eye contact with men on the street." >

From the Journal of Social Issues, Vol. 39, No. 2, 1983, pp. 63-81

Houellebecq - perhaps you could look reflect on some of the many studies done worldwide for many years now about ways in which men and women are socialized differently in regard to personal risk and safety. Also, the findings are consistent in perceptions of personal safety - between the sexes as well as between races and communities.

For example, one reasearcher found that white males are the least concerned about personal safety; men are more afraid of assault and robbery; women of sexual abuse. While most assaults of men happened in the streets; women and children were more likely to be assaulted in their own homes, by a loved one, family friend or acquaintance.

A couple of researchers that you could have a quick browse at include:

P. Gustafson1: Gender Differences in Risk Perception,
and some of the studies on which that paper is based
- M. R. Burt and R. E. Estep, "Apprehension and Fear: Learning
a Sense of Sexual Vulnerability," Sex Roles 7, 511-522 (1981).
- M. Warr, "Fear of Rape Among Urban Women," Soc. Prob. 32,
238-250 (1985).
- R. L. LaGrange and K. F. Ferraro, "Assessing Age and Gender
Differences in Perceived Risk and Fear of Crime," Criminology
27, 697-718 (1989).
- M. R. Burt and R. E. Estep, "Apprehension and Fear: Learning
a Sense of Sexual Vulnerability," Sex Roles 7, 511-522 (1981).
- J. Flynn, P. Slovic, and C. K. Mertz, "Gender, Race and Perception
of Environmental Health Risks," Risk Anal. 14, 1101-1108
(1994).

You might also reflect on why 'Take Back the Night' rallies began, and why men are now joining those TBTN events. Some men have decided to distance themselves from thuggery and to assert their claim on safe communities.

Btw I didn't perceive Antiseptic's post as being any more or less offensive, illogical or uninformed than usual.

Btw, when you post something that one would not expect from a conservative male and it's something that I find intriguing, original, profound or humorous, I'll comment accordingly.

pynch

pynchme,

I don't wish to reflect on any study you come up with, as it's guaranteed to be hand picked to support your world view, and there would be bugger all chance you would read anything I suggested for the same reasons. Regardless, I'm sure those studies don't dramatise the fear of rape survivors and appropriate it to the experience of all women as you do.

'when you post something that one would not expect from a conservative male and it's something that I find intriguing, original, profound or humorous, I'll comment accordingly.'

Yep, and When you post something one would not expect from a whining career feminist with a chip on her shoulder and an innate hatred of all things male I'll reply. But by all means. reply, or don't reply, it's honestly not very important to me. If you don't reply, I'll take it that you agree.

'Some men have decided to distance themselves from thuggery'

And some muslims have decided to distance themselves from terrorism. I am under zero obligation to distance myself from the behaviour of other people who happen to be the same gender. I know that's hard for you to handle, but I don't feel any guilt for being born male. You've shown time and again by language like this that you hold all men accountable for the actions of a few.

BTW: I've never seen any evidence of humour from you, and certainly nothing original or profound. I suppose that's why you look to others to provide it

Looking back on my three years with a violent man 30 years ago, and three years with a less physically but more psychologically abusive man 15 years ago - even I don't understand why we do it. Two things I do understand: We don't leave because we tend to blame ourselves. Thus, we also don't seek help because we are ashamed of our failure.
Once our thoughts become distorted in this way, then other distortions follow. At its worst, I felt a complete failure, completely alone, hopeless and unloveable. And once reduced to this infantile state, then even an occasional hug from a monster seems preferable to no hug at all.
I don't know why we do it, but I do know it's incredibly easy!

People are individuals; they can't be boxed into 'men' and 'women'. And women, including me, can behave badly, if less violently, in these toxic relationships, too. I can look back on my first violent partner with great empathy - he, like I, was young and struggling without guidance to find a path through our differences. I look back on the second with contempt.

I don't see much to recommend this ill-informed article. It lacks insight and is insensitive to both men and women.