Altman: <"Suzeonline and Pynchme obviously did not read the article.

Quote from Pynchme: "Suzie: I agree. I didn't see anywhere in the article that referred to all men"

Article: "The Four Corners strategy also gives succour to all the men bashing their wives in teleland: they can all imagine themselves to be rugged, adventurous “risk takers”, just like Inglis. It’s a win-win strategy for ALL MEN, rich or poor.">

Altman you're right. I apologize. I did read it but I didn't see that. I read it as a continuation of the overall emphasis on sportsmen, sportsmen and men who sympathize with or share the same worldview as anyone who bashes women.

It isn't fair and detracts from an otherwise good little article.

Pynchme:"I did read it but I didn't see that."

That's only to be expected - the message that "all men are bastards" is so deeply engrained and you're so used to seeing/hearing it in polemics produced by people like the author that you just don't actively note it any more - it's become psrt of the background.

IOW, the perception that "all men are bastards" has become "normalised", which is hardly a surprise given the massive spending on advertising campaigns over the past few decades, not to mention the efforts of the feminised press and the massive funding given to women's organisations to spread the word about "women good, men bad".

It's interesting that none of the grrrls want to acknowledge that his GF's second story may be correct. If he did intervene to stop her harming herself, isn't it likely that when the police first turned up she was distraught and unable to face up to what had happened, only telling the truth when she had calmed down and realised the implications for him of being thought to have been violent towards her?

Having had a woman friend turn up at my place at 1 in the morning threatening to kill herself with a knife because she'd had an argument with her boyfriend, Inglis's GF's second story sounds entirely plausible. If that woman friend turned up today, I'd call the police immediately and let them deal with it - I'd simply not take the risk that a nosy neighbour might call them for me when hearing the raised voices, since I'd be very likely the one carted off to the cells for the rest of the night.

In fact, I'd probably call them then lock her out, just to make sure. Let's face it, if she hurt herself in my home then said I did it or if she got hurt while I was taking the knife from her, what chance am I going to have of a fair hearing from the coppers? I'd say none at all.

Benk:

“Playing the helpless female who needs men to solve your problems will only bring condemnation from people”

This is a typical defensive response from a man who is threatened by feminism. Caroline was not asking men to solve women’s problems. And anyway, domestic violence isn’t just ‘women’s problem’—it doesn’t really do men a whole lot of good either. The elimination of violence by men against women would be a good thing for both sexes.

“If you wish to reduce the incidence of domestic violence, please stop running these type of articles”

I agree with Pynchme and Suzie that the people complaining about this article harbour deep reservations about the abolition of domestic violence – if this isn’t the case, you wouldn’t be so hostile. Caroline’s approach was to use biting humour—if she’d taken a different approach, the anti-feminists would have criticised her for being boring and serious.

Phanto:
“If violence toward women is to stop then it is the victims who need to examine why they remain in relationships.”

Um, no. If violence toward women is to stop, men have to stop doing the violence. Duh. Dogs sometimes deserve to be hit to be taught a lesson. An adult never deserves to be hit.

“As to the claim that women are in danger even if they leave a relationship this may be true. They are not the only ones who live in fear of violence. We all live in fear of personal injury every time we get out of bed each day.

Compared to women, men generally don’t have to fear as much. Women on the other hand are constantly told, “don’t go walking alone at night”, or “you’d better not get too drunk if you’re going to stay out late” etc. Women are stalked, raped and murdered, usually by men they know, at a FAR higher rate than men are. So don’t tell me that we ALL live in fear of personal injury—the inequality that exists between personal safety levels of men and women are a clear demonstration that we live in a very unequal society.

ema,

'I agree with Pynchme and Suzie that the people complaining about this article harbour deep reservations about the abolition of domestic violence – if this isn’t the case, you wouldn’t be so hostile.'

And we have another! Go stand in the line with pynchme!

In case you missed my earlier post to pynchme (she seems to have done), the 'if you've got nothing to hide' tactic as used by one Stephen Conroy to silence all debate about the internet censorship filters doesn't work.

Similarly, you and pynchme saying 'if you argue with anything in the article you're a closet women basher' doesn't work either. People are too smart for those kind of crap arguments. It's laughable man! Kindergarten stuff.

Antiseptic,

I think you should be kinder to pynchme, she admitted she was wrong about a point, not something you see every day on OLO.

But I'm starting to agree with what you said on another post...

'Other groups of activists use the same methodlogy, from indigenous people to sufferers of some illnesses to some religious groups. Zionist Jews have derived enormous authority from persecution in Europe that has allowed 60 years of atrocity to take place barely questioned in the Middle East.

Part of the central thesis of all these groups is that questions are beyond the pale. They have gone to extraordinary lengths to try to justify a culture in which every statement is part of a polemic and to question means one is misogynist or racist or anti-semitic or just plain hard-hearted about the plight of their particular group of victims.'

Ema - the inequality that exists between personal safety levels of men and women are a clear demonstration that we live in a very unequal society.

Well we live in a society where men in general are physically bigger and stronger than women. If women were bigger and stronger than men then it would be men at a disadvantage. You cannot blame men for their physical advantage over women.

Just because this is the case does not necessarily mean that women’s hope lies only in controlling men’s behaviour. They have the same intellectual power as men and the same ability to solve problems. Maybe they just have not yet found a solution that is not dependent on the co-operation of men. There are many instances in history where smaller, weaker groups have outwitted their physically stronger opponents by using their brains. There are solutions – I just think that some women do not want to find them because they prefer their moral supremacy or their victim status.

‘If violence toward women is to stop, men have to stop doing the violence.’ This is another cry of helplessness. If you cannot stop being a victim unless you can change mens’ behaviour then you are already a victim. Maybe men will never change – does that mean the cause for women is lost? It does not say much for the ingenuity of women. Many women only see one solution to this problem because they are afraid of any other solutions. Many are in abusive relationships for all the wrong reasons and they are afraid that if they genuinely look for other solutions these reasons will be exposed for what they are. Perhaps if they embraced those solutions men would have to change but as it is now they do not have to because women give them the power.

EMA said:
"Compared to women,men generally don’t have to fear as much".

"So don’t tell me that we ALL live in fear of personal injury—the inequality that exists between personal safety levels of men and women are a clear demonstration that we live in a very unequal society."

Yes, but you made one HUGE error. Its MEN who are more likely to be the victims of assault across ALL AGE GROUPS. Its actually MEN who have most to fear.

http://www.aic.gov.au/en/statistics/violent%20crime/assault.aspx