State aid for state schools.

I won't object to Melbourne Grammar digging up their oval for another fine edifice once there are enough seats in classes for all Northern Territory children (with breakfast and lunch thrown in) and the government schools in outer suburbs of Melbourne have shelves in the teachers' materials storage rooms.

I thought it was the other way around, kungka.

>>I have seen so many children who are turned away from the private sector because of learning difficulties, social problems, behaviour problems - you name it.<<

While those categories may not be "turned away" from public schools, their chances of actually getting any kind of education there are lower than zilch.

In my experience - which I admit is only as a parent, not a teacher - private education provides a far greater opportunity for the oddball - the asperger kid, the dyspraxic - than any resource-strapped public school.

Billie - taxpayers don't owe public school students breakfast & lunch. That is parent/guardian responsibility.

Re comments: ".. seen so many children turned away from the private sector because of learning difficulties, social problems, behaviour problems .."

The Anglican school my children attended had several Downs syndrome and other challenged students including 2 wheelchair bound. Was told school received additional Government funding for these kids who generally attended ordinary classes. Social & behavioral problems were minimal because of the schools approach to pastoral care and strict but fair discipline. Yes - if kids wouldn't obey the rules after every effort to counsel and correct, they were expelled. Good!

"Most parents pay large amounts for an independent school education so their children have a far greater chance at securing a taxpayer subsidised university place .."

My spouse and I wanted good overall educations for our 3 children in an environment that facilitated learning and supported values we were trying to instill in our offspring. Two were academically gifted, the other more average. All received very satisfactory levels of support and educational outcomes. Elder 2 went to University (both had part-time jobs) while the younger pursued hands-on training. What we and they didn't have to put up with was rampant bad behaviour, disruption in classrooms and second-rate teachers. What they had to endure was dress and manners nazis and expectations they meet obligations both in and out of classroom. We had to abide hefty fees and for child #3, shortage of vocational subjects. We were not overly well off and sacrifices were necessary for the cause. However it was one of the best investments we ever made.

Meantime cousin and friends with kids at State schools often struggled with kids not wanting to attend school because of schoolyard & classroom chaos, violence and bullying in one case. (School couldn't solve the problem - Surprise!) And this folks is one of the main reasons Private Schools do better.

So suck it up and do something about the Public system to raise the standard ie take a leaf out of the Private sector book.

Csteele,

You say:

"my daughter is lucky enough to be in the top 7% at her school then she will be competing with over 30% of those at the local grammar school for a top end publicly funded university place."

So either the kids are smarter or the education is better.

And in spite of the assertions, while there is a focus on results, there is a far greater focus on all round issues than at the public schools. These include music, art, community involvement etc. The kids work and play harder, achieve more and have more options later in life.

If it does not cost the state any more, then the only reason to call for the withdrawal of the subsidy is spite and envy.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Isn't it strange how most of us would agree with the concept of basic equality (equality before the law, equality of rights and responsibilities, etc.), except when it comes to our children.
If state schools are performing badly in comparison to private schools, then there must be lessons to be learnt.
And the answer cannot be privatisation or paying fees, simply because the majority of Aussies just can't afford it.

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." are singularly unaffected by the existence of private education, Grim.

In fact, I'd suggest that the pursuit of happiness would most certainly include the choice of how one's child might be educated.

>>Isn't it strange how most of us would agree with the concept of basic equality (equality before the law, equality of rights and responsibilities, etc.), except when it comes to our children.<<

You are suggesting, I suspect, that the existence of private education somehow infringes upon the concept of "basic equality".

Does the existence of Maserati cars signify the same "basic inequality"? Or should they be banned as well, given that we have a perfectly adequate Public Transport system?

Does the existence of villas with Sydney harbour waterfront similarly infringe, Grim, given that we have an entirely satisfactory public housing programme?

Or perhaps you are equally incensed that my take-home pay, from a business that I founded, is higher than that of the counter staff at the nearby McDonalds, given that we both work "equally hard"?

If not, then what exactly is your concept of "equality"?

>>If state schools are performing badly in comparison to private schools, then there must be lessons to be learnt.<<

What lessons, exactly?

In order to command their exorbitant fees, the private schools have to do better than the State system, just to survive. So the quality differential is unlikely to disappear.

Why not just think of them as a benchmark towards which the public system should strive? Then everybody wins.

>>And the answer cannot be privatisation or paying fees, simply because the majority of Aussies just can't afford it.<<

I can't see anyone suggesting that the entire system should be privatised. Using a voucher system puts the "buying power" where it should be, in the hands of the consumer.

And since every taxpayer would get vouchers of the same value - there's your equality.