Still peddling, I see, Martin Ibn Warriq.

>>Post mortem appearances are explicit, the reference to the empty tomb likewise... The narratives are messy, and in all eyewitness testimony – often conflicting.<<

Both explicit AND messy. That's a good stretch.

But I was remiss in not responding to the last red herring you trailed across the spoor.

>>Pericles it seems you argue the Gospels are mythical.<<

Not at all.

It would of course be far easier for you to think so, so that you can make dismissive observations like...

>>the logical outcome of his 'mythical' hypothesis 'the Gospels are works of astounding literary genius'. If you want to live your life believing the disciples had Shakespearan abilities that is up to you.<<

Stories are simply... stories.

They become embellished over time, sometimes with malice aforethought, sometimes through carelessness, sometimes simply through misplaced enthusiasm. None of which elevates them to Shakespearian heights.

This is of course a perfectly valid reason why they differ in detail.

Much as you'd like to use these differences as proof that they could not have been fabricated...

>>They're not smoothed out for effect, the reports don’t line up perfectly as they would if there was collusion. <<

...it could equally - nay, more feasibly - be argued that they were simply oral tradition, passed from fireside to fireside, growing with each telling like a recently-escaped trout.

But each to his own.

I feel comfortable that the all-pervasive lack of evidence, is on my side. You feel that it is on yours. No problem.

But what's with the threats?

>>Very soon who we have really been worshipping all this time will be revealed for everyone to see and that shame will burn like a fire that never goes out... you would find Jesus awfully intolerant of your desire to be left alone in your agreeable delusions. He doesn't take no for an answer though. Until that fateful time when he will woo no more.<<

Shows that you paid close attention at Benny Hinn and Creflo Dollar classes, but little to indicate a connection with reality.

Sad, really.

physical bodies cant walk through closed doors
john 20;19 clearlt says ...when the doors were shut...jesus CAME and stood in their midst, and said to them ;..'peace be with you'

at john 20;20 clearlt he reveals his hands and side piercings...''then the deciples were glad when they SAW the lord''

i say saw with highlights because at john 20;17 jesus says unto mary...'do not cling to me ,for i have not yet ascended'...and say to them i am ascending to my father and your father[ie god]..thus isnt flesh and isnt 'god'

further at john 20;21 ,jesus says to them..''peace to you...as the father has sent me...i also send you

at 22 he breathes on them and says ''recieve the holy spirit''[ie our breath]

blessed are those that believe without seeing

21.1 he again reveals himself to be SEEN
but it all depends on how we each chose to see it[or not]

as paul later reveals when you were children i fed you milk..[maybe its time we got to the meat of the matter]jesus is a son of god[thus not god..he died for us [yet now is eternal like our father god who can never die]

we either believe he is emanuel[revealing god within us all; thus love god by loving neighbour]or not[either way the path via the many beliefs are all but narrow paths to god]god is grace/mercy..we can but try to be like the christ reveals our father to be[that in seeing his grace and mercy we see them..as if seeing the father]

Peddling? I don't care so much if you go to Hell, Jesus does though and I've been told I have to tell you he has a get out of Hell free card to give you. I am the one who holds orthodox Christian beliefs the ones constitutive of our civilisation: it is you and your kind who are peddling for a new moral and cultural program. But I'll allow you to display your wares. It is only Christianity that is the sure foundation for your freedom of speech.

Explicit and messy yes. Agree on central facts disagree about detail, talk with anyone who transcribes eyewitness testimony.

>Stories are stories.

You haven't done any work on this. If you mean the genre is of modern realistic narrative the next example was 1600 years later.

If you mean legendary:
1 Corinthians 15: 3-5 Paul is quoting an old Christian formula which he received and in turn passed on to his converts According to Galatians 1:18 Paul was in Jerusalem three years after his conversion on a fact-finding mission, during which he conferred with Peter and James over a two week period, and he probably received the formula at this time, if not before. Since Paul was converted in AD 33,

. . . this means that the list of witnesses goes back to within the first five years after Jesus' death.

. . . . Thus, it is idle to dismiss these appearances as legendary. No time has elapsed for the "stories" to develop.

You don't know your textual science Pericles.

"I feel comfortable that the all-pervasive lack of evidence, is on my side." Never a truer word spoken. The general standard of atheism is appalling; it is irrational, aggressive and misanthropic. You may comfortably sit in your unreason but don't try and spread it.

UNSURE who..[or if]..martin is quoting<<Peddling?..I don't care so much if you go to Hell,>>..me either..<<..Jesus does though and I've been told I have to tell you he has a get out of Hell free card to give you.>>...but it must be clearly said

jesus can forgive us our past sins..[in fact does]...BUT he cant remove your will to sin

[it is the love of sin plus the will to sin
that takes you into the hells}

see that we can be forgiven..[yet if we return to 'sinning' we go to that some place of love of sinning some call hell..[its relitive that those in hell dont think of it as hell]...[so essentially hell is the wrong word],..the sheep go to the place of sheep..[the goats to the land of the goat#

the tares to the place of tares[the wheat to the place of wheat[and yes even the chaff has the place of chaff]

[for a true sinner..heaven would be hell,..all them goody/goodly [godly]..holier than thou preachers..preaching to each other..[i can well see how easy it could be to confuse that some call heaven yet others call hell]

see that more WILL be given..[if you love to sin you go to that place those not loving to sin..call hell,]but that you think you love has others loving it MORE..[..doing upon only EACH-OTHER the vile they love to do to you...lol]


its not rocket science..[jesus dosnt remove the will to sin..[only says if your willing to redeem thyself..,all is forgiven]

we assume much about things..[one mans heaven..[is anothers hell]

just as a swine loves rolling in the muck..[swine would hate rolling on flowers,till they too turn to muck

so too..forgiving an un-repentant 'sinner'

what the use excising 'one' demon...
only to have 7 return?

You sound upset, Martin Ibn Warriq.

>>The general standard of atheism is appalling; it is irrational, aggressive and misanthropic. You may comfortably sit in your unreason but don't try and spread it.<<

There's no need to be.

If you are prepared to believe all those weird stories in the bible, there's absolutely nothing that I can possibly say that would change your mind.

In any case, I couldn't give the proverbial fig, it is a matter that involves only you and your credulity, and I'm not standing between those two rascals.

No-one "spreads" atheism, by the way.

Many people "spread" religion. In fact, you have turned it into a mini art-form, tailored to a 350 word limit.

You play with words...

>>If you mean the genre is of modern realistic narrative...<<

I'm pretty sure you just invented that term.

>>If you mean legendary... it is idle to dismiss these appearances as legendary. No time has elapsed for the "stories" to develop."

No, I don't mean "legendary". And I don't mean "modern realistic narrative" either.

I'm talking about stories. That people tell each other in their various meeting-places. Over dinner and a fine pinot noir. Or down the RSL. Or whatever the equivalent in Galilee.

>>You don't know your textual science Pericles<<

Did you invent that one as well?

I'm talking credibility here. To me, the fact that no-one at the time was sufficiently exercised to make a note of each passing miracle is a strong indication that those miracles did not occur, and were in fact merely strongly embellished stories that people used to mythologize a religious cult figure.

Presumably "textual science" is what you use to fill in the gaps. And you wouldn't dream of using it to promote an agenda, would you?

For the umpteenth time, I have no opinion on your devotion to religion. I don't have the same addiction, but I have no desire to wean you from yours.

But claiming that some ancient stories are somehow factual, as opposed to allegorical or metaphorical, continues to annoy me to the point where I have to respond.

Waterboy,

Your question regarding poetry is mindlessly pointless, but you impressed yourself so I am pleased you felt good for that moment..Ha!

My comment re:indoctrination, Christmas and Easter is very rational...It is how we all know about the alleged God and how it is continually put in our children's faces at least twice a year.

Maybe your kids realised their error and concluded A. “You're a goon.” B. “No! You're a goon.” C No we're both related to Dad...He's the head goon... Sorry couldn't help my self.

You seem to nit pick but not actually say much...

If "...that adventures in 'personal spirituality' tend to be narcissistic in nature" when taken out of context seems like an assumption...please put it into context for us.

But if I misinterpretted your post...I apologise...you seem to go to a lot of trouble not to say much.

But enough of this sillyness

The way the Bible has been mistaught, misread, selectively read, and selectively sold...I would thing that the resurrection is very questionable.

In fact if I were God...I would be very judgmental of the way Christianity has conducted itself since Jesus' alleged ministry.

How can anyone teach the murderous God, the threatening Jesus, the vengeful, jealous, angry God and think they have it right?

When will Christians actually understand, that if there is a God, he would NEVER have done the things that the Bible says he did.

The jealous, angry, vengeful God who killed his son to save us from sin, that churches sell is a myth...

What will God think of people who believe and teach that he would be so unintelligent, (based on the Bible), to commit such horrific acts, makes such stupid laws and sacrifice his alleged son?

No wonder people with brains are atheist and agnostic...