Anyone can call themselves a Christian. All you have to do is follow Jesus' teachings and believe in him. John 3:16

Labelling someone Trav, breaks Jesus' rules!

I read many of the things Christians post often breaking Jesus' express instructions and selling an unintelligent God.

Why would the most intelligent being ever, who can do anything and everything, a God, who can create Universes in a split second, allow his beloved son to be crucified?

He doesn't need grand gestures, he doesn't need to wipe out people as he did with the Egytians first-born in Exodus and many others.

He can just say...all your sins are forgiven. That's what Jesus allegedly did!

But no, that's too logical!.

I think if there is a God he is more intelligent than the Bible illustrates and Christians believe and teach.

I don't see him intervening in our lives, he doesn't feed the starving, he doesn't heal the crippled.

If there is a God, he loves us unconditionally, and is laughing at how humans turn myth into reality by deluding themselves! He wouldn't be vicious, jealous or vindictive!

He is probably ashamed that his followers believe that he is so unintelligent. On one hand creates all things, and then is accused of creating ridiculous laws and agreeing to the murderous actions in the OT.

It is ludicrous to think he allowed his son to be killed to save us from sin! He has the power to do that without the suffering!

So I guess on Miracles the fact that all your prayers will not regrow an amputated limb proves the delusion!

The fact that you pray for a better world makes you good people...the fact that your prayers aren't answered proves that God will not act.

So now you add "has the ability to intervene as he pleases"!

Jesus said John 14:14 “You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it”

This is an unequivocal statement! By adding "as he pleases" you modify Jesus' words...Jesus would have said"....I will do it if I please" if that was his intention.

"Anyone can call themselves a Christian. All you have to do is follow Jesus' teachings and believe in him. John 3:16"

Does that include believing him when he told us he's the Son of God?

"Labelling someone Trav, breaks Jesus' rules!"

Not at all. Jesus labelled plenty of people, for example when he called the Pharisees a brood of vipers. This is clearly not the same as judging someone's heart or their sins- that is God The Father's business.

"Why would the most intelligent being ever, who can do anything and everything, a God, who can create Universes in a split second, allow his beloved son to be crucified?"

Why not?

"Jesus said John 14:14 “You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it”"

What does "in my name" mean? I would assume that asking for something in his name would imply something within his will. And why would we ever be certain that what we ask is within his will?

Who are we to assume that we should ask anything, which is against Gods will, and just expect that he'll grant it? God is not a vending machine, and it is only removing one verse from it's context and away from common sense that allows this idea to creep in

I am interested in the notion that someone needs to believe in miracles to be able to assume the label 'christian'.

I do get a sense that the newer churches are aggressively assuming the role of gatekeepers. Possibly a carry over of the 'infamous' "Five Fundementals" from the Yanks which basically stated that without a belief in: Inerrancy of the Scriptures, The virgin birth and the deity of Jesus, The doctrine of substitutionary atonement by God's grace and through human faith, The bodily resurrection of Jesus, The authenticity of Christ's miracles (or, alternatively, his pre-millennial second coming), then one wasn't a Christian.

America however has produced other notables such as the Jefferson Bible which was TJ's attempt to get to the core of Jesus' teachings without the sexing up from the four evangalists. It has also produced Bishop Spong whose writings have shown an alternative path to recognising the historical Jesus and the extraordinary Jesus.

Are we able to refer to those two as Christians? I would have thought so, just as I am happy to refer to myself as Australian even though I was often enjoined through the Howard years by bumperstickers saying "If you don't like it leave" to find another affiliation since there was a heap I didn't like about our direction as a nation.

I personally get sustainence from the bible and Christ's teachings and it troubles me to see the uses to which he and his teachings are sometimes put. But ultimately it is a great lesson on what it means to be human, all of us with different needs and many of us likewise prepared to create a different version of this extrodinary man to assuage them.

Listen up, you guys.
I do not believe that Christ was God.I do not believe that any gospel has an authentic biography of Jesus. But it was an age of charismatics who did remarkablethings including healings that couldnt be explained rationally.And all this from other sources on the period.So why not Jesus?

These days we have all known of healings and other deeds performed that have defied any rational explanation.There are many things that we scientists arent able to explain. I know about a guy who fell out of an 8 storey building and was horribly injured as you might expect.he was almost pronounced dead. A faith healer was allowed in to visit him atthe isistence of the parents and from that day on the patient began to recover and was finally discharged though stillm unableto walk freely and needs extensive physio. It happens frequently enough to let us believe that such healings dont commence from the 20th century but could have been possible in 1st century Palestine. Jesus could well have been one of these charismatic healers.
My point is...so what? What exactly does it prove?...NIX

socratease

Trav,

Show me where Jesus said "I am God"! I can show you where he said he wasn't:

John 14:28 "...because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I".

This is unequivocal with no shadow of doubt!

He prayed to "OUR Father who art in heaven" Matthew 6:9

AND

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he (God) gave his only begotten son (Jesus)etc.

AND

John14:6"....nobody comes to the FATHER but by me"

PLUS

On the cross he said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

Who was he speaking to? Himself? How could he have forsaken himself?

Trav...In your mind Jesus is at least the "Son of God" or biblically wrong "God".

Jesus calling a Pharisee names isn't saying you can do it. Jesus' teaching is "Do Unto others..." Matthew 7:12

Are you putting yourself on the same level as Jesus? I don't think he gave Christians the right to call people names! Sorry! That goes against his teachings!

Why would you ask "what does in his name mean"?

Your the Christian, when you pray don't you say "I ask these things in Jesus' name AMEN" at the end of your prayers?

But you failed to answer "Why doesn't he grow amputees legs back"?

It undermines what he allegedly said here...

Jesus allegedly said Matthew 17:20 "...If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and NOTHING shall be impossible unto you."

All I ask is for Christians to show that they have the "faith of a mustard seed".

Jesus said it ...not me!

'I really can't get behind this article. Part of being a Christian is accepting that Christ is divine and rose from the dead. If you don't accept that, you're merely a "Christ follower" in the same way that someone might be a Gandhi follower or a Kevin Rudd follower. If you want a great moral teacher whose commands you can admire and live by, then take your pick, there have been plenty. But Jesus was different because he conquered death. That's the unique aspect of the Christian claim.'

Trav's comment is not good enough. What you are saying is that in order to be a Christian you have to believe an event that is ridiculous. Corpses do NOT spring to life in any literal sense. This is to state the bleeding obvious?

So, rather than encourage honest people to believe a lie, wouldn't it be better to promote Church as a purely cultural experience? One that is social, enjoyable and educational. But without the fabricated mythology.