jesus was resercted in spirit, its not rocket science
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkmgXBOdJ.9wA2qNXNyoA?p=jesus+resurrection+into+spirit&y=Search&fr=sfp&fr2=sb-top

jesus isnt...[nor ever claimed to be god]...he claimed no miracles, and for a fact rebutted those needing miracles as a basis for belief, but there are those who need miracles...[who in being weak in faith reveal they have no faith]

much that passes for current xtianity,is the very antisthesis of what the christ stood for, where does it say hang my dead image on the wall[when the command not to take graven image..[and not to have any before god...[not even his sun/son,who is not a child of god?or indeed claiming he died for our sins..[yet with the next breath claim he didnt die],...he died in the flesh[clearly]
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jesus lived,jesus died,but his spirit lives even today,..he left many teachings,was witnessed by many who saw their witness into word,

there are those who may wish he never lived, but that at best is speculation..[but even if they could validate he didnt, the teachings he left behind aRE THE CORE,..of getting to know our maker, via the risen christ

well may those with vile in their heart decry love [based on their fears,]...that is because ye sought to know him not, ..this extends to those who veil their vile to misslead his flock..[the wolves in sheep clothing]

..by their deeds are they revealed.you see them with their love of rite and ritual..[wearing clothes worth a kings ransom, while children starve and are murded in their mothers wombs and in useless wars simply to steal others god given gifts,

jesus may forgive you lot..[i never can]..repent ye scum..god loves a repentant sinner... god loves you so i must try..[but sans the will to repent you deserve your realm in the darkness because you rejected the love and the light,

rejected the one [god] who loves you[gave you the most vile your very life to live..[knowing that in time you would repent your love of vile]...why not try love now..[while it still matters].. how many more need die ...just so you can think this fleshy corpse is all there is

I deliberately joined this thread late.

Trav with all his Christian knowledge can label a person who doubts the bible record as "merely a Christ follower"...he has already labelled them. Is that really Christian to do that Trav?

You fail on several of Jesus' explicit instructions

Matthew 7:1-5 "Do not Judge others"

John 8:7 ....let he who has not sinned cast the first stone...”.

Christians are correct to question miracles and luckily I have brought a simple test.

How many churches have regular prayer and healing meetings?

How many amputees have had their legs restored through these prayer meetings and God's grace?

The answer is none - so either God refuses to heal amputees OR he has something against amputees OR God can't heal amputees OR the Bible is wrong!

Jesus allegedly said:

John 14:14 “You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it”

Matthew 17:20...NOTHING will be impossible for you!

All a Christian needs is the "faith of a mustard seed"!

Well a mustard seed is a very small seed...so either Christians don't have enough faith or Jesus and the Bible tell fibs.

Can there be any other possibility I haven't considered?

Why don't Christians ask their preachers these harder questions?

I mean the stock answer in preference to "I don't know" is "God works in mysterious ways" but is this an acceptable answer from a teacher?

Is not telling the truth and answering "I don't know" a little deceiptful? Is this Christian?

I agree with others that if "the resurrection of Jesus is untrue" then Christianity is another philosophy. I was going to say "just another philosophy" but to use the word 'just" fails to acknowledge the generally good effects that Jesus' alleged teachings have had on society.

Of course there is the 2002 find of what some say is the burial "Ossuary" of Jesus but this is desputed naturally. For if this was proven to be true the resurrection would then be very questionable!

General Info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Tomb_of_Jesus

Against the Ossuary as Jesus'

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/M%20Heiser%20Ossuary.pdf

and

http://graal.co.uk/ossuary.html

and another view

http://www.jesusfamilytomb.com/new_discoveries/james_ossuary.html

Happy reading!

Bushbasher,
I challenge the notion from Dye that the church or Christian belief in Australia has declined over the last 30 years. Of course, that is debateable, as it depends on which measure you use.

It’s probably true that overall weekend church attendances are down from 1979. But I would argue that this is only one measure. How can you measure nominalism, people who only go for social reasons or whatever?

The following are only my observations. Perhaps others can verify that what I say is true for their region or otherwise:

The Baptist church around the corner from where I grew up was big (seating several hundred), but in the 1990s they sold it to build a bigger one, more than twice the size. And it is usually full.

The Assemblies of God in Australia is a Christian movement starting in the 1930s, which has experienced rapid growth in the last few decades. It has multiplied in number of congregations and adherents several times in the last 30 years.

Pentecostal churches alone in Australia put more bums on seats on any given weekend than AFL football matches, and no one is saying football is in decline.

30 years ago, no one had ever heard of a creationist. Now they attract the biggest angst, insults, and emotionally driven debate on the OLO Forum (after perhaps global warming).

Every large city in Australia has a Christian radio station, as well as there being Christian TV stations available on cable TV. This wasn’t the case 30 years ago.

I heard one survey from America which said that in any given week, more people admit to praying than going to paid work, driving a car, or having sex. I know it would probably be different in Australia, but my point is that it depends a lot on what measure is used. I would be curious to look at church offerings as a percentage of GDP compared to 30 years ago. I’m guessing it might be favourable.

In some ways, the church in Australia is stronger than it ever was.

dan, that's a "no" then?

i don't for a minute think christianity in australia is in its death throes. (no thanks to charmers like jensen and pell, i'd suggest). but you'll not be surprised if i take little stock of your personal observations.

you say, twice, it depends upon what measure you use. i do appreciate that surveys and statistics is pretty obtuse, and prone to abuse. but, i know of no formal measure suggesting that the prevalence and strength of christian belief in australia has not declined.

"Trav with all his Christian knowledge can label a person who doubts the bible record as "merely a Christ follower"...he has already labelled them. Is that really Christian to do that Trav?

You fail on several of Jesus' explicit instructions

Matthew 7:1-5 "Do not Judge others"

John 8:7 ....let he who has not sinned cast the first stone...”.

Christians are correct to question miracles and luckily I have brought a simple test."

Those verses have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. You've taken a couple of verses completely out of context.

At the end of the day, if you don't accept the possibility of miracles, you can't call yourself a Christian, by any definition. The Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, look at all or any multi denominational definition of Christian you like. If you don't accept the existence of a God who at very least set the world into motion and has the ability to intervene as he pleases (and did in the case of Jesus) then you are not a Christian, plain and simple. That has nothing to do with judging sinners.

Sancho, there's simply not similarly good evidence for Mohammed's miracles or Buddha's miracles as there is for Jesus Resurrection. This, of course, does nothing to prove the truth of the resurrection claims, I'm simply saying it's an isolated case because there isn't similarly good evidence for any other ancient miracles.

“I challenge the notion from Dye that the church or Christian belief in Australia has declined over the last 30 years. Of course, that is debateable, as it depends on which measure you use.”

What measure do you use to explain why 95% of country churches and 75% of urban churches have closed.

“Pentecostal churches alone in Australia put more bums on seats on any given weekend than AFL football matches, and no one is saying football is in decline.”

I'd really like to see supporting statistics for this, especially seeing a church getting 35-55000 regularly each week as do individual AFL games, even on a Sunday. Or the more than 280000 attending all AFL games each weekend. I'd also like to see the combined numbers for all pentecostal churches Australia wide compared to the combined numbers of AFL attendees, along with the hundreds of thousands who go and participate in local Saturday, Sunday AFL. Then you could add soccer, NRL and Rugby attendances to align to the various christian church attendances and compare them. These links will show the veracity of the poster in this regard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Australia

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/17164.htm