I once upset a former Mormon by describing our present governments as the churches of Satan and the latter day demons. However that description fits Hitler, it fits Stalin, it fits Mugabe, and it probably fits the government of Bashir in the Sudan. I may even upset you.

However as the mob in Chicago used to say, you cannot make an omelet without cracking an egg. I was intrigued to see a poster set out three criminals, One robs a bank because he is a professional, one because he has a starving family, and a third because he is a cop. In the Satanic mode, all three go to jail. How many of you know that in Protestant Christian Scotland, a man who stole a sheep to feed his family, was never convicted! They had 15 man juries in Scotland, and even if a jury convicted a murderer by an eight to seven majority, he went free because the verdict was not unanimous.

Jews used to have 25 man juries. If a man was convicted unanimously, he was acquitted because the Jews believed if 25 Jews agreed something was wrong. Holdsworth in the History of English Law, details how Protestant Christianity government started to flow in the Tudor period. In the time of 46 Edward III 1372, the Parliament took up the Biblical damnation against lawyers, and banned them from Parliament for 492 years; 1372-1870. In 1472, one hundred years later Henry VII had the parliament ban Judges from deciding criminal cases. Only a jury could acquit an accused criminal, but a fine was always offered instead of jail.

The Satan Church steals, and has continued to steal since the lawyers crept back into the parliament. It has no justice mechanism, because once a person is convicted a lawyer shoots him off to jail or bankrupts him. Satan in his temptation of Jesus, said: Matthew 4:8, after showing Jesus all the Kingdoms of the world: All these things I will give thee if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

By default all atheists and liberals are worshipping Satan

I have often been fascinated by posters who deign to comment on an article, while professing not to have actually read the article.
I have to say I'm a little more sympathetic to these posters now. The comments here are much more entertaining than the article was.
I don't have much time for the Christian God, as he (it? she?) is self evidently not a Christian. I think the same largely applies to most Christian churches.
The legendary Jesus, on the other hand, would I think have made a very good liberal.
As to the comments concerning our current predicament, and the decline of western 'civilisation' (is that an oxymoron?), and the alleged Christianity of Hitler, et al., may I point out that virtually all our current -and recent- leaders, Bush, Howard, Obama, Rudd, etc., are all avowed Christians?
As are many bankers and stock brokers, strangely enough.

Peter the Babbler: << By default all atheists and liberals are worshipping Satan >>

Give it a rest, Peter. You're even sillier than Peter the Bombastic (the one who writes these interminable sermons).

Romany

I thought Pagan came from the Roman for Pagoni, or countryside, so pagans were followers of the Roman countryside earth religions, and whilst Wicca was an earth religion it did not originate in the Roman country side and was not pagan. There seems to have been many differences as well as similarities.

Unfortunately the Christians have destroyed both and our supposed knowledge is often really only the Christian lies used to discredit both. Although I think it would be beneficial to the human race to revive the earth religions it seems impossible. Christianity as usual was very clinical in eliminating any opposition.

The Alexandrian book of shadows shows the lengths the followers of Wicca went to try to keep Wicca alive without giving much insight into what Wicca was. There is so much that Christianity has destroyed that can never be re-built.

Apart from the assertion that Wicca is alive and well I generally agree with the tone of your post.

Trav.

The murders, genocide, depravity and the general unimaginable crimes against human race carried out by the Christian religion only stopped when the church was separated from State. It must never be forgotten what Christianity does when it has the power.

A little reminder for the 21st Century was what happened when Christianity regained a little power through George W Bush. It went straight back to its old murderous ways.

<<This gets us into a bit of a dilemma, because it shows that poor old David is either completely ignorant, or is deluding himself to a point few have ever reached.>> This is not debate but good old Christian abuse. This says nothing about David, but plenty about you.

Vigorous debating Yes. Abuse No.

PtB

<<I think even so prominent a churchman as Peter Sellick has lost sight of the fact that Christianity is a form of government.>>

The day has come when I agree with something PtB wrote. Alleluia, It is a Miracle.

Grim

Bush and Obama both Christians? Isn't that just the American way? To satisfy the Bible belt you have to be a Christian.

Not quite, Daviy, but close.

>>I thought Pagan came from the Roman for Pagoni, or countryside, so pagans were followers of the Roman countryside earth religions<<

Its root is indeed paganus, Latin for a rustic, or country bumpkin.

But its most common application was by soldiers, who used it to describe their incompetent brethren, as it also had a "civilian" connotation. Which to a soldier was pretty much a term of derision.

Its attachment to the non-Christian element, it appears, was most likely developed by Christians themselves. As we know, they saw themselves as "milites", or "soldiers of Christ", and would have used the non-soldier connotations of pagani (plural of paganus) as an antonym.

In this sense, Wicca is most definitely pagan, as the term would apply to all non-Christian religions.

>>"I think even so prominent a churchman as Peter Sellick has lost sight of the fact that Christianity is a form of government." The day has come when I agree with something PtB wrote. Alleluia, It is a Miracle.<<

Peter Sellick, a prominent churchman?

That's news to me.

Prominent in which church, might one ask, since he seems to despise so many of them.

Peter The Believer:

Yo stated that Churches have lost sight of their government function.

They have no government function. One point on which I vehemently agreed with BOAZ-david/polycarp (who now appears to have departed) was that the Church does not have a role in government. "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

If you're planning to respond with biblical prose, I can assure, it means nothing to me, I say that because perhaps it means something to you.

The Church hasn't really been an institutional government since the dark ages.

... Thank god for that. There's a reason why they were the 'dark' ages. Your comments about judges being little gods are absurd. Yes, they can be pompous with an over-inflated sense of their position. But that's about it.

Finally, I'm an agnostic.

I don't give a damn about your satan. If you want to scare yourself silly with tales of hellfire, go for it, but don't tell me what I worship because clearly, you have no clue.