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The Forum > Article Comments > The trouble with liberalism > Comments

The trouble with liberalism : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 30/3/2009

Liberalism is not so much an ideology but the vacuum left after the implosion of Christianity.

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Hitler was devoutly Christian, runner. You know that from myriad debates here on OLO. In case you'd genuinely forgotten: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8210&page=0#129896

However, since you lie continuously to shield yourself from unwelcome truths, I doubt it.

Which brings me to the real trouble with liberalism, which is that it forces each of us to face arguments and ideas which are clearly true but which we wish were false. For Sellick, runner, Glorfindel et al, that argument is "there is no evidence that god, if there is one, is anything like you claim. There is no evidence that your adherence to dogma provides you any protection or reward that is unavailable to nonbelievers. Further, it is evident that nonbelievers most frequently live moral, pro-social lives free of the fear and punishing moral restrictions which you accept as the price of your faith."

Unable to contradict that argument with any evidence, the religious fall back on strange double standards and unsubstantiated accusations, as we see in the article.
Posted by Sancho, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 3:03:57 PM
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Cue 'Not a true Scotsman' fallacy...
Posted by AdamD, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 4:39:34 PM
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Runner

Did you read my response to your post? If you did how come you came back with a post that bears no resemblance to either of my post? No correlation what so ever.

All I can suggest is that you as a good Christian, and not understanding what I am writing, should love me anyway as your neighbour and turn the other check.
Posted by Daviy, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 4:41:38 PM
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Sancho

You write 'Hitler was devoutly Christian, runner'

Then why did he act in such an secular manner? I can just see Jesus telling Hitler to kill the Jews can't you? Devoutly Christian you say. Like the Salvos feeding the poor or Mother Theresa doing her stuff in India. It sounds a lot more like the extermination of unborn babies than devoutly Christian to me. You could not be a tad dishonest could you? then again if you don't believe in absolutes why not, as everything is relative.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 10:43:10 PM
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Dear runner,

Hitler acted in a devoutly Christian manner. Christians have been slaughtering Jews for a long time. Catholic Crusaders slaughtered Jews. Lutheran Swedes slaughtered Jews. Orthodox Christians slaughtered Jews in pogroms and other Christian activities. Hitler followed not a secular tradition but a Christian tradition.

Jesus was not a Christian. He was a Jew, and Christians have a tradition of slaughtering his co-religionists. I can't see Jesus telling Hitler to slaughter Jews, but Hitler was not a Christian.

Murder is much more a Christian than a secular tradition.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 11:00:01 PM
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Dear runner,

Excuse me. I wrote, "I can't see Jesus telling Hitler to slaughter Jews, but Hitler was not a Christian."

I meant to write, "I can't see Jesus telling Hitler to slaughter Jews, but Jesus was not a Christian."

Jesus was not a Christian but a Jew, and you do not follow the religion of Jesus.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 11:03:48 PM
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