runner, what is your source for this claim?

>>Over one of the gas ovens Hitlers words were inscribed 'I want to raise a generation of young people devoid of conscience, imperious, relentless and cruel.'<<

Somewhere close to first-hand would be good, and the original German would be useful too.

I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but the two claims - a) that this was inscribed over a gas oven and b) that they were Hitler's words, are both individually and together most incredibly unlikely.

Which would make this claim of yours just a touch ironic:

>>Keep rewriting history guys with your warped interpretation but one day you will need to face the truth.<<

Face the truth, runner. Hitler's religion was Christianity.

Talking of rewriting history... good try, Sells.

>>My purpose is to expose liberalism for what it is, a façade of good intentions dressed up in the clothes of values: freedom, fairness, tolerance, choice, human rights<<

That is a nice little sidestep from your original claim:

"Liberalism stands for freedom, tolerance, fairness, self expression, choice and fulfilment. It stands against doctrine, discipline, self sacrifice and discipleship."

First you state what you believe that "Liberalism stands for", now you wish to "expose [it as] a facade of good intentions"

Is it any wonder we are confused as to your intentions, Sells? You clearly share our confusion.

Pericles

Following on from your post, I thought Sells had out-contradicted himself entirely.

Further to him trying to rewrite the meaning of 'liberalism', he actually claims that 'virtue' is a quality belonging only to the religious, no doubt he means specifically 'Christianity' and probably as a further qualification his narrow version of the above mentioned religion.

As for his claim that the heat with which his articles are attacked is due to his attempt to show the 'true' Christianity.

No Sells.

You are attacked because you continue to denigrate anyone with a different belief or point of view. Being an atheist does not mean I am morally vacuous, greedy, selfish or any of the other insults you hurl at us with tedious regularity.

If you actually followed the philosophies of Jesus you too would be more liberal, inclusive, tolerant and if Foxy is an example of true Christianity, then a lot more courteous.

David f, How would you substantiate your assertion that "... Christianity, like all other religions, is a human invention as is God."?

It is your opinion that God is a human invention, but it is impossible to separate our conceptualisation of God (or Gods, Christian or not)from the world beyond our senses. The presence of an observer or other entity(of unknown attributes) which/whom we may or may not sense, can neither be confirmed or dismissed by rational argument.

I am reminded of flowers in a vase on a table in a library reading room. They would be unable (I bravely assume) to have any conscious awareness of each other or of the vase, the room, its contents or its occupants. Guppies in a fishbowl would fare somewhat better in the realm of awareness, but would they know much of the books or the relationships between the moving things beyond their invisible wall?

The question remains arguable: Did humans invent Gods, or did God invent humans?

An inability to perceive the invisible, or experience the spiritual, does not mean that neither truly exists, or that its existence is a human invention.

Pericles you ask

runner, what is your source for this claim?

Actually someone who has visited there. He writes

'I remember walking through Auschwitz some years ago when I was speaking in Poland; my host, who was medical doctor, took me to Auschwitz. I remember seeing the horrors of thousands of pounds of women’s hair, thousands of suitcases, little toothbrushes, little pairs of shoes. Teenagers were walking out of there with tears running down their faces. It was very sobering. And I saw the words of Adolph Hitler against the gas ovens there, “I want to raise a generation of young people devoid of a conscience, imperious, relentless and cruel.” What happens when you unleash a generation like that—a generation of young people, imperious, relentless and cruel?'

http://www.lifewithoutlimbs.org/passionate-articles-details.php?articlesID=16

Dear runner,

Funny that the 'Darwinism' claim is made ad nauseum, yet Hitler never mentioned Darwin or evolution once in Mein Kampf. One would think that if evolution was such an inspiration to Hitler, he'd want to make a mention of it in his book.

If Hitler was inspired by evolution, then it was from a misunderstanding of what evolution is - a misunderstanding that shows just how dangerous the push of misinformation from creationists really is.

Yet again, runner, you are caught out lying. And you have the nerve to so frequently speak of 'honesty'.

Disgraceful.

Thanks runner, that's where I thought it came from.

>>Pericles you ask 'runner, what is your source for this claim?' Actually someone who has visited there.<<

Ravi Zacharias' address to a prayer breakfast in 2002.

You will find, runner, that this is the only place that you will ever find this little piece of nonsense.

I have also been to Auschwitz. Not only does no such inscription exist, but there is no mention of it in any of the records, either there or anywhere else.

Its most obvious flaw is that it is unlike anything Hitler is recorded to have said. He was fond of the declamatory, and very fond of the patriotic. But he was also a statesman, and unlikely to have said something this crude in public.

In private, perhaps. But inscribed on a gas oven in a concentration camp?

Hardly.

I'm afraid that you have allowed yourself to be carried away by your enthusiasm to mark Hitler's card, runner, and are using an ethically dubious and totally uncorroborated source.

It's a bit like Einfeld. Zacharias thought that no-one would ever check.

Which really puts this into perspective, doesn't it...

>>Keep rewriting history guys with your warped interpretation but one day you will need to face the truth.<<

Zacharias didn't actually rewrite history.

He simply invented it.

It is important to bear in mind that Zacharias is basically another evangelical, in the mould of Jimmy Swaggart, Oral Roberts, or Jim 'n' Tammy Bakker, making a crust out of spruiking "the gospel". Using him as a source, especially when you are basing an entire argument on it, marks you as gullible, I'm afraid.

Here's an opportunity to help your fellow-man.

If you can provide the evidence, something authoritative, showing the location, the inscription in German and verifiable proof that these were Hitler's words, I'll donate $100 to your favourite charity.

Or you can simply retract your claim.

Over to you.