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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel must pay for crimes > Comments

Israel must pay for crimes : Comments

By Antony Loewenstein, published 9/2/2009

The extensive use of white phosphorus in a densely populated Gaza was a war crime, according to Amnesty International.

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As much as I agree with the sentiment of this article, for the most part, using phrases like "The Jewish state, like any other nation, should be held to account for its actions" injects a religious-ethnic element which is entirely unnecessary.
Posted by Kurt, Monday, 9 February 2009 12:29:45 PM
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“it is difficult to recall a comparable slaughter of civilians in so little time"

1. We can name quite a few: Ruanda, Bosnia, Zimbabwe, India/Pakistan, etc. etc.
2. The word "slaughter" implies a deliberate intention to kill. While there was the intent to kill Hamas terrorists, I do not think there is any sane person, including the author, who believes that there was any deliberate attempt to kill civilians on behalf of Israel.
3. On the other hand, there was a deliberate effort by Hamas to see as many Palestinian civilians dead as possible (in order to accuse Israel as they now do). Deliberately shooting from civilian concentrations, deliberately grabbing children into the midst of armed Hamas fighters, deliberately mining homes and forcing families to stay there, deliberately killing civilians (especially those affiliated with the Fatah opposition) in order to increase to hospital casualty-count.

You keep talking about "occupation" while there was no occupation in Gaza for some years (and negotiations are underway for ceasing occupation in the west-bank as well).
You keep talking about a "blockade" while only arms, ammunition and goods that can be used to produce rockets, or to dig tunnels through which to kidnap Israeli soldiers, are blocked, as well as preventing terrorists from going out for military training in Iran, then coming back with advanced bomb-making skills.

Even when goods do arrive, the Hamas takes them all to itself, they care nothing whatsoever about the 1.5 millions civilian Palestinians, their victims.

If you have any sympathy for Palestinians, take the Hamas mafia away from them.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 9 February 2009 1:07:34 PM
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Religious-ethnic tension and Israel are inseparable at this moment in time.

Kurt, I readily accept that it is more diplomatic to refer to Israel, rather than "the Jewish state" in discussions of its policies and activities (if only to avoid ad-hominum attacks by posters who confuse criticism of Israel with antisemitism). The fact remains, most ministers in the current Israeli government seem to have fewer reservations in this regard than either you or I.

All of the current front-runners in the imminent Israel elections are promoting a "Jewish state", where the majority of voting Israelis are Jews. These politicians promote this view because they believe it will help them get elected. I wish they would be replaced in tomorrow's Israeli election by a government of a less extremist nature, but I would not bet on it.

I expect that, in our rapidly changing international climate, the newer, further-right government of Israel will be significantly isolated internationally, in a short period of time.

Israel is one nation, overall population about 7 million. If we look solely at the issue of religion, there are some 1.8 billion Muslims in the rest of the world, living in nations of every political shade and style. In addition, there are many nations which identify in some regard as Christian, whose citizens are also horrified by the actions of Israel against Gaza.

There are also many Israelis of different religions (including Jews) who do not support current Israeli policy. And then there are the millions of people of other faiths around the world who are appalled by the indiscriminate slaughter of Gazan men, women and and children, and wanton destruction of Gazan property in December and January.

I fully expect that significant pressure will be brought to bear against Israel's past and current treatment of Palestinians, by June of this year. I hope that the outcome is a smooth, orderly and timely transition to a more humane approach to diplomacy between Israelis and Palestinians.
Posted by Sir Vivor, Monday, 9 February 2009 2:36:55 PM
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Anyone who wants to see how discredited Ant Loewnstein is need only refer to the following links:

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24720821-5001031,00.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/02/this-weeks-loew.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/02/loewenstein-wrong-again.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/02/dumb-and-dumber.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/02/ignorant-audience-now-dumber.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/01/boring-but-easy.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/01/loewenstein-massacres-truth-again.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/01/editor-required.html
http://rwdb.blogspot.com/2009/01/antony-loewenstein-under-resourced.html

His capacity for getting facts right is basically non-existent.
Posted by AJFA, Monday, 9 February 2009 5:10:28 PM
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I think Antony Loewenstein has a damm sight more Creditability than the people like you, who parrot the men from the ministry ie the well oiled
Israeli propaganda machine AJFA.
By the way what do the initials stand for?
Posted by John Ryan, Monday, 9 February 2009 5:23:25 PM
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Israel should pay for defending itself. Rubbish! Hamas are the recognised terrorists who should be brought to book if it takes generations.
Posted by Leigh, Monday, 9 February 2009 6:09:53 PM
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