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The Forum > Article Comments > Israel must pay for crimes > Comments

Israel must pay for crimes : Comments

By Antony Loewenstein, published 9/2/2009

The extensive use of white phosphorus in a densely populated Gaza was a war crime, according to Amnesty International.

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"The vast majority of global human rights groups disagree"

So what, Ant? The "vast majority" of global human rights groups won't even condemn the death penalty for apostasy, or stoning for adultery, or defend the right of Dutch filmmakers to make films, or the right of Danes to draw cartoons, or the idea that Jews have a right to defend themselves.

The Ant is an expert in self-abasement.
Posted by Parser, Monday, 9 February 2009 11:27:24 PM
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"Hamas are the recognised terrorists ..."?

Leigh, your comment that
"Hamas are the recognised terrorists who should be brought to book if it takes generations."

Sounds to me like unthinking vengefulness. Are you an Israeli? Do you support Zionism? Do you believe in human rights for all, or are you happy to limit the scope of the commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill" to the people you think are deserving of life? Do you think Hamas members deserve to live? Their families?

Israel's attack on Gaza was disproportionate and indiscriminate. If Israel spent the money on Gaza that it spends on armaments from the US, many Gazans would be thanking Israel instead of cursing them.

All for the sake of votes at tomorrow's election!
Posted by Sir Vivor, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 8:41:19 AM
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When will Lowenstein and other apologists for Hamas, Hezbollah, et al, including the UN, apply the same standards to Israel's enemies as they do to Israel? Hamas openly and enthusiastically targets civilians and civilian targets. They aim to maim and kill as many civilians as possible. The fact they have limited success is irrelevant. The idea of proportionality is nonsense - it means a never-ending cycle of escalating tit for tat violence. This isn't a game Mr Lowenstein, the people who die or are horribly burnt and injured when hit by Hamas missiles or suicide bombers are real people, not numbers to be talied. So if Hamas kills a thousand Israelies is an armed Israelie response then okay? What if it's 'only' 100? 10? How many before its 'okay' for Israel to defend itself?

Amnesty International has no legal standing to make findings of criminal guilt. Its statements are expressions of opinion. It is misleading and disingenious for Mr Lowenstein to pretend that the simple use of phosphorous is a war crime - it isn't. There are many valid and legal reasons for Israel to use white phosphorous but of course Mr Lowenstein isn't interested in exploring those.

International Law that does not apply to and restrain ALL parties to a conflict is not a law in anything other than name. When will the leaders of Hamas be tried for war crimes? When will Mr Lowenstein criticise Hamas with the same zeal that he uses to attack Israel?

Antony you know you can argue a point whilst still canvassing the validity and counter arguments of both sides to a conflict? Your articles are embarrassingly poorly researched, poorly argued and laughingly biased. I don't mean this to just have a go at you. But really, you're a 'journalist, author and blogger'? Well then so am I -but it doesn't make either of our arguments any more valid than they otherwise would be. Maybe instead of doing a couple of history units in your undergraduate Arts degree you should study and graduate in Law before you start making findings of criminal guilt.
Posted by Paulie, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 10:44:30 AM
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You think proportional response is nonsense, but you are ignorant of international law.

Paulie, whoever you are, your claim that "Israel must pay for its crimes" is "poorly researched, poorly argued and laughingly biased", does you no credit, as your comment appears at least equally so. Do you think you are setting an example of impartiality with your unfounded assertions? Your grammar is passable, but your composition wants evidence of the very qualities you mention: research, argument and lack of bias.

Perhaps you would care to comment more impartially on the item below:

"UN to resume Gaza aid operations

"The UN is to resume delivering aid in Gaza after it said Hamas returned humanitarian supplies seized from UN warehouses last week. But the UN Relief and Works Agency said that the earliest it could resume deliveries was Wednesday because the Israeli-controlled crossing points are closed for the country's elections. The agency suspended shipments on Friday after Hamas seized 200 tonnes of rice and flour, 3,500 blankets and more than 400 food parcels from a distribution store. Hamas denied it confiscated any supplies, calling it a mistake due to a lack of co-ordination. On Monday, UN officials reiterated their call for Israel to lift the blockade on Gaza and open the crossings to urgent supplies. The top UN official in Gaza criticized Israel on Monday for blocking the shipment of paper to print textbooks for a new human rights curriculum that will be taught to children in all grades in the Palestinian territory."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/function/0,,12215_cid_4015563,00.htm
Posted by Sir Vivor, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 5:52:17 PM
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Sir Vivor,

The reason why Israel imposes a blockade is to prevent weapons smuggling by Hamas. Do you think allowing Hamas to get more rockets into Gaza to fire into Israel, thereby forcing another war is a responsible or humanitarian thing to do?

What is implied in your argument is the idea that Israel is a cruel state controlled by genocidal Jews. Is this really how you think of Jews? Do you realise how anti-semitic it is to attribute such horrible motives to Jewish peoples?
Posted by AJFA, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 7:11:48 PM
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Enough, time to boycott the Tel Aviv Zionist regime.
http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.php
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/10/naomi-klein-boycott-israel?commentpage=1
'nuf said.
Posted by MX, Tuesday, 10 February 2009 7:39:09 PM
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