Good point Crabsy. There is nothing rational about statements like 'homosexuality is wrong and a violation of human dignity" or from Phanto's post that tied it in to people with a 'problem'.

Homosexuals do not have a problem. But people with an irrational adversion to homosexuality (homophobia) do.

I'm not a gay. But I had the unpleasant experience a few years ago of being the target of a hate campaign from a small number of people which might have given me some insight into what it is to be the victim of homophobia. I might as well turn the unfortunate affair to some use and use it to support my case here.

There was nothing rational about my victimization. Someone in a postition of trust allowed it to leak out that I was the close friend of someone who these people disaproved of. The ringleader may have also put out that I was some kind of spy - a piece of misinformation guarenteed to keep me isolated and under suspician.

For me, who was already very fragile,at the time, but keen to be involved, it was personally devestating to be targeted for something I hadn't done and something I didn't like either. I had to seek medical and pyschological assistance. It was tough on my family and made a stressful time much worse for.

These people weren't even young wild eyed ranters seeking revolution, (the revolutionaries I know have more sense) they were comfortable middle class people whose favourite Saturday morning occupation would be drinking lattes, and talking about free association and human rights but at the same time indulging in a little bit of stalking and harassment behaviour against me at public events that was quite at odds at what was coming out of their mouths and should have earned them a embarressing restraining order at the time and official complaints to their respective organisations, if I hadn't been so beaten down and defenceless, and definately will in future should they ever do a repeat of performance of their activities.

To be continued

Following the Pope's logic all those born with Down's syndrome or other genetic defects are unnatural and should be shunned.

He is confusing "natural" with most common. In nature most things follow a single "path" but in all species there are behaviours that deviate from the norm. This does not make them bad, only different.

As head of the organisation with the greatest No of gays he should understand this.

Another article highlighting the media's distortion of the Pope's words:

"Critics of Benedict misheard the Pope" (from The Australian)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24850261-7583,00.html

Life history continued from previous post!

I don't imagine the people who think homosexuality is wrong who are posting here would of course behave in such a way as these people who discrimated against me, or be anything but polite to homosexual people. I'm referring to my experience of being discriminated against because for a while, I was the one feeling dirty and ashamed and at fault. These people made me think I was the one with a problem. Eventually some common sense and self esteem crept back into my life and I realised that the problem was not me. All I was doing was trying to sit in public events and indicate that I didn't like what the previous government was doing. The problem was with the people who thought it was okay to gatecrash my life to inflict hate politics on me without any right, or to attempt to talk to me to see if I deserved their hate.

Probably some gays when they experience homophobia have the same response of shame that I did to discrimination. It must be very hard to be young gay who has been involved in their church for years to suddenly be on the outside and to be made to feel there is something wrong with them. Hopefully like me, rationality will dawn, that the problem is not with them, but the people who are trying to say something is wrong with them. I can't imagine Justice Michael Kirby or Senator Penny Wong, have much time for feeling they are in some way unnatural.

I never got a apology from either the people who dropped me in it with the people who harrassed me, or from the harrassers, though by their own rules they were so far out line, they were out near Pluto, so waiting for the churches to change, may be wasted time.

Phanto:

Your reply to my previous post fascinates me. Let’s pursue your reasoning a little further.

You say:

<So the only sexual behaviour that you can say with certainty is logical and reasonable is that which pursues the goal of creating a child. Any other type of sexual behaviour can be used for ‘acting out’. >

So why is it always logical and reasonable to create a child?

JL Deland:

Thanks for sharing your story: you obviously developed greater inner strength from that awful experience as well as gaining deep insight into the plight of the outcasts.

I'm much more optimistic than you about the possibility of change in the churches, because it is already happening. You probably don't hear so much about it from the outside, but as a practising member of a church I can tell you that many Christians now understand that homosexuality is not to be condemned any more than heterosexuality.

"Human bodies, having been created by God, are evidence for an authentic sexual morality."

Evidence, please, Your Holiness?