This forum seems to be forgeting that fact that the pope has very rarely throughout history made a dogmatic declaration deemed to be "infallible". The pope's statements on homosexuality are his personl opinion and are in no way intended to be regarded as dogmatic church teaching. I am also a member of the Roman Catholic Church and I regard my conscience as a guide which I also use in my ineractions with my fellow human beings. I am also involved in the broader dialogue on morality - so I also speak on church teaching.
Official Catholic teaching explicity says that the homosexual tendency is natural: so the Pope is actually contradicting this teaching if my impression of his speech is accurate. What the church rejects is the genital expression of homosexuality.....So that's what the debate should be about. The issue here seems to be that same sex genital activity does not lead to procreation. The same could be said of heterosexual copulation where contraception is used, or perhaps anal intercourse in a heterosexual couple.........
The problems is we never get to the issue.....this forum is a classic example of how we intelluctualise the conversation and even get bogged down in bigotry and damnation.....
We need to be more honest about sexual morality.....it's not about homosexuality and heterosexuality......It's about the dignity with whioch we treat our fellow human beings.

Well said, Macanudo. It is easy to get bogged down in bigotry and finger-pointing; I thnk also that taking a small section of a speech in isolation can be harmful to our understanding of the speech as a whole. At the end of the day, the Pope says what he thinks and it is up to us to agree or disagree.

nice one Gibo, on the end of empire.

First they start to have sex, then they're into idol worship, then they discover supernaturalism, and then they kill themselves.

Next thing you know they'll discover dancing and rock 'n roll and wouldn't that be a disaster?

Bennie’s post 12th Jan. 11:48am shows just how irrational anti-Catholics are.

Bennie says: “Homosexuality exists throughout nature, not just among humans.”
So what? Lots of animals eat their offspring. Does that mean it is okay for humans too? Also, numerous high order mammals arrange their heard with a dominant male at the top servicing a group of females. Do you think humans should adopt this polygamous type structure as well? After all it is in nature.

Bennie says: “…[there’s] a religious war happening in the M.E….”
And this relates to the Catholic Church how?

Bennie say: “Millions are dying from preventable HIV infections because the church says condoms are sinful.”
Wrong again bennie. Most people become HIV positive because either they or their spouse or their parents have not followed the Church’s teaching about being sexually chaste before marriage and sexually faithful to your spouse after marriage. Also, only about 15% of the world’s population is Catholic, so even if we pretend that all of that 15% obey Church teachings on the use of contraception, why would the remaining 85% of the world’s population who are not Catholic give a damn what the Church says about condoms?

Bennie says: “Child abuse by religious institutions continues in all parts of the world.”
Well it has been a problem in the past, but it seems to be improving. But of course nearly all child abuse occurs outside of the Catholic Church, and that’s a problem that seems to be getting worse every year.

Bennie says: “And you’re [the Church?] worried about what consenting adults do in their bedrooms?
Yes bennie we are. Immoral sexual conduct affects human society. Have you heard of the AIDS problem? I wonder if you think a wife should concern herself about her husband having consensual sex with another adult woman

"What the church rejects is the genital expression of homosexuality.....So that's what the debate should be about."

fine. if someone believes this nonsense, then debate it. let's hear the argument. just please, no more vacuous condemnations about "violation of human dignity". no more unsupported god-given characterisations of "immoral sexual conduct". knock it off with the pre-fab doctrine and give us some bloody reasoning.

In reply to Macanudo, 13th Jan 9am.
You say as a Catholic you use your conscience as a guide in your interactions with other people. Are you sure you don’t mean you use your feelings as a guide? Isn’t a Catholic to use the Church’s moral laws as a guide in his/her actions? And isn’t conscience simply that inner voice that alerts the Catholic to the reality that they have transgressed the moral law as defined by the Church? Isn’t this why it is so important for Catholics to be well formed in the faith?

You also say: “Official Catholic teaching explicitly says that the homosexual tendency is natural…”
Mmmm, I must say I’ve never heard such a teaching. Would it have been hard to provide a link to this “explicit” teaching and thus prove that the Pope is, as you say, contradicting Church teaching?

Yes you’re right about the need for people to be more honest about sexual morality. Active homosexuals certainly don’t have a monopoly on sexual immorality, but they do seem to hiss and spit the most whenever the issue is raised.

And to “Bushbasher” @14th Jan 2:18pm, given that the speech being discussed was given by the Pope (the leader of an organization that believes it was instituted by God) and the speech was addressed to the Roman Curia (part of the same organization that believes it was instituted by God) wouldn’t you expect it to include all this God related stuff? You’re getting all worked up because the Church has a world view formed in part by its belief in a Creator God!
And people say Catholics are crazy.