Refuting cautions about "essentialist statements" by making yet another essentialist statement ("that is a post-modernist statement")? As if making an "essentialist statement" necessarily means "going to the essence of things" - and with little or no analysis. No wonder the discussion ran aground.

One of the most dangerous aspects in the widespread promotion for more tunnel-visioned and less discussed or analyzed religion in this context is such ideologies' usefulness for inciting war for the benefit of decadent oligarchs. For this reason, the feudal banking networks in and around Saudi keep pushing salafi doctrine with big incentives, while their UK backers keep giving the thumbs up. That is why Pakistan is a main focus, while Iran continues to be demonized as a target of priority. It is also why so many leading terrorist financiers and organizers have been based for years in the UK.

Do not be at all surprised when salafis - like their born-again fundy christian mirrors - become a haven for the truly irrational and hypocritical evangelists for apocalyptic war. I believe that such danger prompts thoughtful writers like Nursel to caution against "essentialism" here; to claim some simplistically raw, basic, unambiguous and fundamental knowledge of Islam is precisely the trap that the salafists fall into themselves.

Islamophobes probably do more to sponsor salafist/Wahabbist dogma than they realize; they certainly help such causes more than they would admit. The rest of us remain to take responsibility for dealing with the mess caused by such simplistic thinking.

'Islamophobes probably do more to sponsor salafist/Wahabbist dogma than they realize; they certainly help such causes more than they would admit. The rest of us remain to take responsibility for dealing with the mess caused by such simplistic thinking.'

Actually no. The monolith of Islam itself is the prime foundation and sponsor of Salafist/Wahabbist dogma.

Moderates create Islam - Islamofascists thrive in it.

The only way to break the above cycle is to do what Dawkins and Dennett do. Point out the inherent delusions, fantasies, and impossibilities of monotheistic theology. Education is the key.

Confusion from TR.

Then why did salafist and Wahabbist dogma arise in the first place, but so long after the Koran?

"Islam" as "sponsor": how can I get "Islam" to sponsor me in my walkathon? Or maybe you mean "Yusuf Islam" f.k.a. "Cat Stevens"?

Then: "moderates create Islam"? So now you would seem to hold that the main founder of Islam is "moderate"? Unusual that an avowed liberalist (variously "sceptic", "anti-monotheistic", but consistently Islamophobic) would vilify such moderates as being criminals, insane, etc. (see: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8326&page=0)

No milobserver. Wahhabi like extremism has been around since Islam's beginning - for extremism follows Islam like a mangy dog. Othman was murdered by gang of thugs, as was Ali. This is turn led to a Shia-Sunni civil war that still goes on today. Hussein was evetually killed by the Umayyad Caliphate. Then we had the persection of the Mutazilis who fought the Umayyad theologians, until the wheel turned full circle and the Mutazilis were able to wield their own brutal political power........till 2009.

And all the while, the general Muslim population - made up of Mr and Mrs Average - does not have the intelligence or the guts to walk away and say "Goodbye!". They just keep copping the obuse like a hopeless addict to their drug.

OK, so "Wahabbism" is like "extremism", which is like "a mangy dog", all of which are like political violence among rival theocratic organizations. Then "the general Muslim population" are "like a hopeless addict to their drug".

You just don't like Islam or Muslims at all do you? That is like so Islamophobic.

I don't like Islam in the same way I don't like all the other monolithic totalitarianisms.

However, it would be irrational to dislike Mr and Mrs Average Muslim (or Mr and Mrs Average North Korean, to use another example) purely because they are trapped in a certain ideology.

If a non-Muslim is to criticise Islam then it should be reserved for the ideology itself, or the clerics who perpetuate the whole sordid system.