The proposition I have been trying to get across is that Israel, as the much stronger protagonist in the much stronger position, should make the first concessions in a planned and structured compromise. There is not much point is discussing who did what to whom and why, though of course this is not completely irelevant if we want to understand why we have reached this deplorable conflict.

Reconciliation without military barbarism is an admirable aim, and this is an ideal time and place to establish this alternative model. Make the concession to Abbas and his moderate Palestinians, and support for Hamas will evaporate very quickly. Perhaps that way we can avoid the bloodshed, and set new standards for the future.

Remember how close we came with the Oslo and Camp David accords?

And Paul, did you deliberately misconstrue me, or did you just run off on another tangent? I was not looking for "moral leadership" from China. I am looking for moral leadership from the US. The leadership they have displayed over the past several years has turned much of world opinion against them. This is their opportunity to turn this around, and stave off any challenge from China. Is there "change we can believe in?"

Disagree with me if you must, but please don’t misrepresent me.

Paul, I did say that I would stop posting on this subject because I thought we had reached as far as we could sensibly go, but you have issued a minor challenge. You say that you “do not accept, (and I have not shown) that Israelis have stooped to the methods of terrorists”. Of course I won’t convince you, but let me tell you my reasoning. A man walks into a bus station with explosives attached to his body, and then detonates, killing himself and nine others. Another man sits in his armoured vehicle, fires a mortar into a bus station and kills ten people. Both these acts are acts of terrorism. Spin it how you like. It's irrelevant whether the Security Council has called for a cease fire or not.

Harry G, you must be kidding me! it is admirable for a nation to just sit back and watch its towns being attacked by 2000 missiles for six months? I have never heard of such a worthless diplomatic approach to a crisis so profound as this one. There is nothing admirable when it comes to a gang attacking innocent lives for six months. It is easy for you to make such statement as a spectator looking in from the outside, but it is the responsibility of a state that is to protect its citizens even if it means going into Gaza to stop the rockets.
Those who support Hamas do think like Hamas. To them, it is okay to send 2000 rockets to Israel but unacceptable when Israel retaliate. This is incredible.
Just imagine if all the Aboriginals attack every Australian federal building because they are built on their lands, what would you expect your government to do? Restrain? negotiate?
You failed to convince me that IDF going after these missile sites is unjustified.
The international media is making millions of dollars exploiting injuries and suffering in Gaza, but you won't see any of the pictures of Hamas militants firing rockets to Israel, and they weren't in Israel documenting victims of Hamas rockets! why is that? self-interest? The terrorists are those who don't wear uniforms, but hide in civilian homes! They hide in Mosques! these are the people you should criticize.
One under god, you need to write in proper English cos you make no sense at all. And noooo, I am not what you assumed to be. I don't have multiple IDs, I have been using my ID ever since I joint. You are a paranoia, illiterate freak!

Adios

yes abo's attacking LOL

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/user.asp?id=27238&show=history
25 comments..total:25 article,0.
IN 3 YEARS

the first two on the big brother thread
7/7/2006

then,5 between
12/7/2006-31/7/2006
making strange comments in the middle of topic's then just disappearing

<<Yes,those terrible Christians and their respect for the sanctity of life.When will they ever learn?.. MaNiK_JoSiAh,31/July/2006

then nothing till

<<At least BM is prepared to go against the tide of popular reporting on David Hicks.Why not stir the pot?It beats the constant"Hug-a-Hicks"campaign in our neo-tabloid papers.>>

yet next day revealing a clear/informed insight

<<Jesus was far from a Talmudic Scholar...His onus was on the Torah, the Prophets and the Writings(the canonical Hebrew Bible).

Some of His most scathing criticism was of the Pharisaic praxis. They demonstrated an outward,hypocritical religion and yet neglected true justice, mercy and love.>>

then an occasional series of what appear to be reasoned insights into vairious aspects of religion

SO YOU HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING of many issues

10 posts for 2007

then 3 posts for 2008
now three for 2009

i reacted to your statement of support of premeditated/murder on the grand scale

<<I would expect the military to take the necessary steps to prevent such a threat.This would include targeted bombings and most likely a ground invasion...Your quote has demonstrated the hate-filled core of Hamas and the threat that such Islamism poses to the world in the 21st Century...I support Israel and the IDF against such a threat>>

i had just heard of the 3 children found besides their dead parents [bbc]and noted your occasional posting histry...and your sympathy that supports this ongoing genocide of civilians by those claiming talmudic right to abuse main and kill arab children

PS..911 was done by neo-cons not arabs[the research is available,and conclusive],but the media controled by neo-con zionista,wont be reporting it,

cheeney coordinated 911 and busche's brother,was involved in the buildings security[the jew that insured the building with a jewish insurance all points out 911 wasnt arab,...but designed and premeditated to set up arab people for mass vilification and mass murder[1,000,000 dead iraqies..,simular to we are now seeing played out?

One under God, you must be nuts! ask the forum admin who is watching my IP. I only joint this forum last week so stop your sorry arse assumption and stupidity. You assumed to know me when you don't know crap about me.
I am still struggling to piece together your messed up contributions cos they don't make sense at all. Your antisemitic sentiments won't change the fact of the issue; go on watching CNN and BBC and cry your head off because thats what Hamas wants the world to see. If they care about their Children they would have evacuated their towns! The deaths of their children, women, and men are their message to the world, thats how they earned the world's sympathy.
A newspaper in Iran accused Hamas of using Children to gain world's sympathy, and guess what happened afterward. It was shut down by the government! Egypt made a statement at the beginning of the Gaza invasion to the effect that Egypt is sharing a border with a terrorist organization (Hamas). In the Arab League, anti-Hamas leaders calling Hamas act as unwarranted.
Only you, nut head, that failed to see the reality of the issue. During the Israel vs. Hezbollah, photos sent around the world brought outrage and condemnation against Israel only to be found later that the photos were doctored or altered through Photoshop elements to make the scene in Lebanon extremely terrible. Same things occurred here recently. Photos circulated are mostly doctored.
UN criticized Israel, but guess what? the IDF announced today morning that they found military equipments embedded in the UN relief supplies. Investigation is underway and it will be interesting to know who is behind it, but it seems that some countries are using UN supplies to Gaza to smuggle in weapons for Hamas!
My final words to you: Idiots breed idiots, nuisances breed nut-heads, and illiterate breeds stupidity. So there you have it one-under-god! Does any one out there understand this person's so-called contributions?

Here's what my crystal ball tells me: Israeli forces will be out of Gaza well before the Obama inauguration on 20 January. I'll get a new crystal ball if I'm wrong.

Support of the comments by John Falconer in Friday’s WEST AUSTRALIAN of 6/1/009.

Quoting history, Falconer is right that a stronger UN at the time gave the only answer - that the Palestine area must now be partitioned democratically between Arabs abd Jews – as well as being under International control.

From Falconer - but the devil was in the detail and the Arab side of the partition was mostly brushed aside.

Thus with American help and US dollars plus, the tiny state of Israel was reborn

From Falconer - if the UN had ensured that the existing rather miserable Arab state had been given the same monetary and political backing as Israel, thngs might have turned out better.

In all this sorry affair the UN should surely take the blame, especially as America, in its position could not stay an honest broker.

Certainly the above still places one in that awkward position of still caring about what most of the present Israeli parents had gone through in the unspeakable Nazi terror camps.

However, historically what has mostly forced me not to change my mind has been the utter foolishness of our modern world to allow tiny Israelto go militarily atomic.

Admiration must thus go to Henry Kissinger who as a high ranking political scientist and Minister of State under Richard Nixon, gave warning that if Israel was allowed to go nuclear it would dangerously upset the ME balance of power so much it might easily start a Third World War.

Finally, also as a philosopher I must close mentioning Immanuel Kant from whom way back in the late 17th century wrote of the need for a democratic Federation of Nations, from which both the League of Nations and our United Nations evolved from, but while the League is said to be ruined by British single-power dominance, so the same has happened similarly with Pax American dominance over the UN.