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The Forum > Article Comments > Where's the real Christian voice in public policy? > Comments

Where's the real Christian voice in public policy? : Comments

By Ray Cleary, published 22/9/2008

Serious questions must be raised about the tactics being employed by some reportedly religious groups.

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Hear, hear Ray Cleary. I imagine that the vast majority of Christians are just as appalled as we secular types are, at the tawdry and vicious tactics used by the purportedly Christian anti-abortion lobby during the recent Victorian debates.

Like several of the most vocal "Christians" who utilise this forum as a soapbox for the promulgation of hateful and bizarre ideas, these idiots give all Christians a bad name.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 22 September 2008 9:40:01 AM
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If Ray Cleary is right, and a “healthy and vibrant democracy requires”…”active participation by the people…”, then there is not a healthy democracy in the world. Most people, irrespective of nationality, don’t give a toss until something affects them directly. This is why we are slowly – but steadily, so the lame brains don’t notice it – losing our democracy and right to free speech and some actions.

That elected politicians can prevent peoples’ desire to terminate their own lives, or for a woman to decide whether or not she has a foetus aborted, represent here-and-now proof that we do not have democracy, by any definition of the word, in those very personal areas.

The people who campaign against the two above issues are no more ‘Christian’ than terrorists are ‘Muslim’. The politicians who uphold their so-called pro-life demands are dictators: the best example being Federal Government interference in Northern Territorians' democratically expressed wish for legalised euthanasia
Posted by Mr. Right, Monday, 22 September 2008 11:05:19 AM
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The author makes no mention of what tactics the 'Christians' he refers to uses. If showing pictures of murdered babies sickens people then they should do something about the thousands that are murdered each year. No one has a problem when the earth worshipers see fit to strip off for any reason in an effort to promote their propaganda. Pictures of the faces of 20 month old children with their limbs pulled apart might not be pleasant but how a churchman could object is unbelievable. No wonder 'Christians' are deserting the Anglican church in droves. When you throw out the truth you cover it with false morality. The author should be sticking up for the unborn not writing about those with the fortitude to stand against such crimes. The church does not need appeasers of evil but men and woman with the guts to say and do what is right. Killing the unborn is WRONG according to anyone with a conscience. Their are enough outside the church with warped and seared consciences (see first two posts). We don't need them inside.
Posted by runner, Monday, 22 September 2008 11:26:19 AM
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In other words, Mr Right, if the democratic vote goes against your opinion, it's not democratic?

Now where have I heard that line of argument before?
Posted by Spikey, Monday, 22 September 2008 12:14:51 PM
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"There is a Christian voice, often ignored by the media, which speaks quietly and informed. Why can we not hear this voice?"

Thanks for reminding us that some Christians remember that Jesus was a defender of the down-trodden and marginalised. He preached love and tolerance, not hatred.

I suspect the reason no one hear's this voice anymore is that the vocal 'moral minority' are shouting so loudly to convince us that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO ARE RIGHT AND WE ARE ALL WRONG that they are deaf to the idea that their God is supposed to be the ONE and if he exists it is he who should judge the 'wicked' abortionists and the 'murderous mothers', not the government of Victoria or the enrage pro-life lynch mobs. Don't they have enough blood on their hands already? Let them spend their time usefully. If they are so concerned about vulnerable babies, they could start by expunging from their churches priests who violate children.

Their irrational focus on the small number of late term terminations illustrated by the multitude of innaccurate and ignorant comments from people like runner: 'Pictures of the faces of 20 month old children with their limbs pulled apart might not be pleasant but how a churchman could object is unbelievable.' certainly don't help their cause.
Posted by xena59, Monday, 22 September 2008 1:16:17 PM
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I don’t think that there can be a “Christian voice” - there are many allegedly Christian groups with widely differing stances on many issues. I’d hope that any professed Christian would seek a base of truth, wisdom, love and compassion when contributing to public policy; but I’d hope for the same from others, these qualities are non-sectarian.

Having twice been pulled back from the brink of suicide in my twenties (1965 and 1971), I’d argue that it is never the best option. The Buddha taught (and you can check this within yourself) that we consist of mental and physical aggregates that arise and pass away with great rapidity; there is nothing permanent, nothing to attach to. He also taught (but this is outside my experience) that at the time of death – when the physical aggregate can no longer maintain itself – the mental aggregates connect with a new physical life with a similar vibration; that is, the last mind-moment of this life is the first mind-moment of the next. A mind at peace, fully accepting the reality of the present moment, will find a compatible new life. By definition, a suicide is rejecting the reality of the present moment, is not at peace, does not understand that all conditioned life is unsatisfactory; such an ignorant mind will find a related new home; the suffering will continue.

(In Christian terms, you might say that whether you go to Heaven or Hell depends on the mental state at death, which of course depends on how you have lived your life. The Buddha, however, does not say that any entity continues, just the process of arising and passing away of mental phenomena.)

Re abortion, I think that life is too precious to be destroyed; I try to avoid killing ants and mosquitoes, never mind tiny human beings. Of course, people will make the choice based on their circumstances and understanding; I would hope that the decision-making process includes arguments for the life to continue, and knowledge that not having the child does not guarantee a better life for the prospective mother.
Posted by Faustino, Monday, 22 September 2008 1:28:20 PM
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