Sancho, thanks for yor comments. I am not so sure however that most people do not see a foetus as a person. Plus of course that the "trauma" is mostly happening to the baby! As to surgery being gruesome, yes, I agree but of course the person who suffers the pain of surgery (BTW I just had my thumb done - it hurts like hell!) is the one who benefits from the same surgery. how does a baby benefit from an abortion?

Ozandy

You crack me up that you have the audacity to judge the Son of God. I did not think anyone would be so arrogant or naive. The sad part is you sound like you actually believe what you say.

Polycarp nee Boaz David.
"But the true believer is characterised by boldness and confidence and an awareness of his position. no matter unpalatable it may be"

You go on about Islam and terrorists, and you have the audacity to make such a statement, that could belong to the Fourth Reich!

Runner.
The majority of bloggers accept that you are member of the extreme religous right, but until you can produce true and real facts to your belief, you appear to be the naive one.

Mr Right,

You ask: "Would you please point out where my post justifies your claim: “In other words, Mr Right, if the democratic vote goes against your opinion, it's not democratic?"

”Your 'argument' is age-old. The stupid majority don't know what they're doing and don't deserve the vote.

"Most people, irrespective of nationality, don’t give a toss until something affects them directly. This is why we are slowly – but steadily, so the lame brains don’t notice it – losing our democracy and right to free speech and some actions."

And we're slowly but steadily "losing our democracy and right to free speech and some actions."

But wait! It's not gradual, it's worse.

The recent votes with which you disagreed "represent here-and-now proof that we do not have democracy, by any definition of the word, in those very personal areas."

But wait, it's much worse!

"The politicians who uphold their so-called pro-life demands are dictators".

That's what you get, Mr Right, when you let citizens vote. They vote in dictators who refuse to vote the way you want them to. It's the people's fault because "irrespective of nationality, [they] don’t give a toss until something affects them directly."

You say: "Disagree with me by all means, but have a good reason for doing so!" How about your confused and elitist position on the democratic rights of people to vote for representatives who are then responsible for voting on their behalf?

That probably takes care of your next request too. "...please tell me how I and all other Australians but you, apparently, missed the chance to democratically vote for or against the issues under discussion. I’m 65 years old, and I cannot remember having the chance to express an opinion at the ballot box. When did the democratic vote go against me?"

You're 65 but you haven't caught up with the parliamentary system yet? If you want a referendum on every issue, you'd better start lobbying political parties now - along with your fellow voters too.

But you'd better be patient - remember what you said about "most people".

The very tactics that misrepresent the Christian voice, are the ones of gross generalization. Ray's pointing out that excess coverage is given to those who claim one is either Pro Life or guilty of the murder of innocents. Worse, these callous people reach that point by dismissing abortion as routine and take pleasure in denying the unborn any rights. Indeed, they are godless, forsaken and bound for eternal hellfire.

By using graphic images, accusing and abusing already distressed people without understanding personal histories, they ignore more traditional values in favour of zealotry. Such as tolerance, introspection, compassion, forgiveness and accepting that unease and confusion over human behaviour are not insurmountable obstacles to the Christian faith. These are the very challenges that give Christianity its authority on living harmoniously in a secular society and it is this insight that offers so much more to those who experience a crisis of faith. More so, there are those who never consider these imperatives until forced to when making a choice over abortion.

Surely it is their right to consider issues of faith - or not - in a non threatening environment. As a non theist the secular values I'd advance include respecting the rights and beliefs of the individual, as they choose. Certainly, the perils of abandoning critical thought for divine guesswork, is intellectual suicide and the resultant mob behaviour is splendid testament. Also it is because the rights of the unborn must be considered that those who use God in politics must be afforded only ridicule.

Their ideal does not include human rights; just their own chance at the big shot. They brutally use such convenient imagery and exploit the unborn to suit their political aims. Religious fundamentalism has abused the minds and bodies of our children throughout history. Of course they are authorities on the "right to life". They claim to know its purpose and judge others according to how well they conform, not perform.

The biggest favour the secular community and mainstream Christianity can do for Australia is to quite simply, destroy utterly the religious right in politics.

Unfortunately as pressure groups dwindle in size they tend to become increasingly radical. Reasonable people who were active Christians have lost interest in Christianity, and those who remain are the hard-core believers. With 150 Australians withdrawing from religion every day this trend will only continue. We can already see the results in the intolerant homophobia of the Jensens in Sydney and the above-the-law arrogance of Cardinal Pell in Melbourne. A vicious circle results whereby more moderate Christians are increasingly repelled by their co-religionists, who get increasingly violent as they get more desperate. And so things will go on getting worse until Christianity becomes so insignificant in the West that it dwindles to the status of an eccentric hobby.

Assuming President Palin doesn't press the button to induce the Rapture first.