Keith try to tell the Jewish National Fund that they did not pay for Israeli land.

Suggest to up to 1 million Jewish Middle Eastern refugees that the Arabs paid them for their land which they left behind when they were "gently persuaded" that they were not wanted in their ancient homelands.

Consider the plight of the Baha'i and the Druze who found refuge in Israel after their treatment in Islamic lands.

Ponder on the decline of Christians in the ME.

Throughout the 19th century Jerusalem had a majority Jewish population, Bethlehem and the whole of Lebanon had majority Christian populations. The Christian majorities have largely disappeared, only the Jews have retained their lands in Jerusalem. Saudi Arabia bans Churches, could the Islamic republics perhaps be indulging in some form of ethnic cleansing?

Of course the Israel haters will not even discuss any of this. They are in denial of the existence of a particularly nasty Islamist streak. Even women on the left stupidly fail to realise that the treatment of women as inferior is something these fanatics want everywhere in the world. Even some gays are too silly to realise what the Islamists would do to them. The Israelis live with this reality, they know better.

Don't imagine for one minute that the disappearance of Israel would change the resolve of these fanatics. Attacks in Bali, London, Mumbai, New York, attempts on Glasgow airport had nothing to do with Jews or Israel. Finish off the Jews the we come for the gays, the atheists then those Muslims who differ from our hellish version of the faith. The Turks are better informed than most of you.

But of course Stalin, Hitler and Lenin were nice people too. The extreme left never learns.

Bushbred for someone who states with pride that they are a historian and political scientist your level of scholarship is sadly lacking.

Have you ever looked at a map and do you understand what the SIZE of Israel is?

Would you make similar noises if Australia was one third the size of Tasmania and apart for the seabord all other surrounding areas were populated by people bent on your destruction? Size matters. I know that is difficult for Australians to comprehend

Keith,

Yes settlement names is exactly what I’m challenging you to produce. Specifically those settlements which as you have stated are “expanding the borders of Israel”.

The ceasefire is a joke. Hamas missiles are still being lobbed into Israel from Gaza every day. Is that what you call an attempt to make peace? They’re taking some breathing space, that’s it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/world/middleeast/27mideast.html?ref=world
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0624/breaking52.html

It is you who is living in denial. Your support for the real Nazis, Hamas, has blinded you to any rational analysis of the situation.

Who calls for the murder of a whole race of people?
Who denies that the holocaust took place?
Who deliberately and coldly search out civilians for mass murder as the basis of their resistance?

Hamas!! Imagine if the Israelis had Hamas policies. Then there really would be another holocaust.

If the democratic process means to lie completely about your aims and ambitions then perhaps I did miss something. What value is Hamas’s election manifesto if it has no bearing on what Hamas intend to do and lies about who they are? It is only produced for the “useful idiots” of the left to give them a fairy tale to hold on to in the face of the brutal, genocidal and theocratic aims of Hamas.

I often wondered how ignorant and sheltered you need to be to believe that Hamas is even remotely democratic. Now I know. Hams are fundamentalist Muslims, they don’t believe in a secular system. How is it you don’t get that?

As for the Hamas politicians, Hamas had kidnapped an Israeli soldier, Israel had every right to retaliate by kidnapping Hamas members.

Secondly, Radovan Karadzic was democratically elected, I wonder whether you think that means he should be protected? The Hamas “politicians” (read militant commanders) aren’t protected from retaliation by Israel for their earlier terrorist attacks.

I’m not a victim of anything, I support the ONLY democracy in the Middle East. You support religious zealots who decapitate people and strap bombs to themselves so they can infiltrate civilian areas to unleash mass murder. You’re the victim here mate.

Bushbred,

There are two completely differrent issues here:
Israel (presumably) acquired nuclear weapons, but only for self-defence, and it already prevented many wars and its likely destruction. Even the peace with Egypt was likely a result of that.

Iran, on the other hand, especially under its current leader, is bent on conquering the world to enforce their version of Islam on everyone. Their nuclear ambitions are not specifically related to the Israeli-Arab conflict. They threaten the Suni-Arab countries just as well, and Europe, and in fact Australia as well. Once they acquire nuclear weapons they will hand them to terrorist groups (you know that Israel never did and will never do the same).

If you dare consider what it means, all of our major cities are situated by the ocean's shore, so just imagine a cargo container labeled "washing machines" arriving in Sydney's port and as it is opened by customs there is a FLASH and a split-second later Sydney is no more. You may ask "why us?" - perhaps becasue we were just used as a polite ulitmatum to the Americans, but for us it would be all over.

Regardless of what Israel does or does not, or even whether or not it exists, if Ahmadenijad remains in power, world-war III is inevitable.

Now Keith,
not many words are left: you are not willing to listen anyway.
Arabs who accept Israel as a Jewish state should be given all rights - and more.
Arabs (and others) who do not, and threaten Israel should receive no rights at all: as for them, let the guns do the talking.
You have no understanding on how generous Israel can be for those who accept it and let it live in peace, nor on the extent of how bitterly painful it will be for those who come to harm it.

Blogs for Perpetual Peace

I really do feel and appreciate your sentiments, Seneca, but from a tried and tested scientific point of view, the smalllest Middle East nation being the only one with a nuclear armoury did not and still does not bear well for the future of an already troubled Middle East, as Kissinger meant when he made the declaration.

Also from a historical viewpoint, it was a gutless UN, somewhat held back by America, which must bear the blame for not establishing a Multi-National permanent protection force for Israel.

Really find it hard to say because we have friends in America, but do blame US decisionmaking, or more rather a lack
of strategic common-sense regarding the whole problem.

Should we be thinking more of getting rid of Hamas and Hezbollah or the perceived NEED for such organisations to exist?

If those organisations ended tomorrow, would Israel just pack up and quietly go home and abandon all it's objectives?

Conversely, if Israel pulled down those walls and withdrew it's troops, would Hamas and Hezbollah disarm and become an IRA-type political party?

Neither side has a monopoly on atrocity or provocation and neither side is totally without blame.

If it was as obviously one-sided as most commentators make out, it would not have gone on for so long.

Whatever the're doing over there just isn't working. It's as if somebody actually wants this situation to continue indefinitely - if not the protagonists, then perhaps even a third party.