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The Forum > Article Comments > Jews on Jews > Comments

Jews on Jews : Comments

By Antony Loewenstein, published 18/7/2008

Many younger American Jews are growing increasingly disillusioned with the Jewish state.

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Paull, certainly the unchanging situation in the Middle East, is the one Henry Kissinger predicted, when he warned Richard Nixon about keeping silent about Israel's illegal adventure into atomic weaponry.

The political science term, Paull, is balance of power, which in no way, whatever, should little Israel have been allowed to upset it, causing so much hatred from muslims in the Middle east.
Posted by bushbred, Monday, 21 July 2008 1:25:52 PM
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What astounds me is that these people who are pushing for a single state solution never seem to mention Hamas and their genocidal charter.

As far as I can tell, they either believe Hamas will magically disappear or they just don't care. Either way, this is not a remotely realistic analysis of the situation.

Please do tell Anthony, what will become of Hamas in your single state solution? Are they really the rightful governing body of your proposed single state, since it is clear to anyone with a brain that the Palestinians will be choosing the elected officials. This is not as democratic as many might think. If Australia was forced to combine with Indonesia, the Indonesians would rule this country as well.

This one state solution is a goal that Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world have been hijacking planes and detonating human bombs for, for decades. Mr Lowenstein would like to just hand over that which they have failed to take by force of arms for over 60 years.

Does he really think Israelis will acquiesce in this revolution of leftist ideology? That they will disregard the obvious fact that this idealistic gesture will leave them at the mercy of their current enemy. An enemy which it must be said, is not big on restraint, and whose prisoners are invariably returned dead.

There are very few examples of this type of conflict being settled by handing power to the weaker (and more radical) side and then expecting peaceful coexistence. The Former Yugoslavia, Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Darfur and even South Africa to some extent are examples of the inability of self proclaimed victims to live with their oppressors.
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

Most importantly of all, there are no examples in the Middle East of Muslim ruled countries treating their non-muslim minorities with anything approaching equality. In fact, in most of the region, minorities are persecuted heavily.

When you recognize all of this, suggestion that a one-state solution will secure the rights of all the people is clearly not founded upon any rational, factual understanding of the situation.
Posted by Paul.L, Monday, 21 July 2008 1:33:12 PM
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In other words, Bushbred, the Jews are to blame for still being alive: why can't they understand that their existence is disturbing the smooth and peaceful flow of cheap oil, then draw the necessary conclusions? can't they see that the only way to stop the Muslim hatred is to disappear? why haven't they stopped this hatred already?

The day China or Indonesia invades Australia's shores, will you still be so proud that we never adventured into nuclear weaponry, so little Australia did not upset the balance of power?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 21 July 2008 2:01:00 PM
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Paul L: I am (a) an unrepentant Leftie, and (b) a supporter of two states. But I also believe that as long as the Hamas Covenant remains binding, the chances of civilized negotiations are remote. The document actually quotes in several places from the notorious "Protocols of Zion", Hitler's and the Tsar's favorite bedtime reading. Many Lefties are unaware of the history of antisemitism, and these people cannot get their brain around the idea that the underdog can sometimes be a real dog. There can be no excuse for either playing down or ignoring the ideological factor, which of course operates on the Zionist side too.
Posted by Youngsteve, Monday, 21 July 2008 4:10:51 PM
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From a political science angle, Israel broke a law, Yuyutsu, as Henry Kissinger intimated, just as every genuine political scientist should.
Posted by bushbred, Monday, 21 July 2008 4:40:41 PM
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Well Bushbred, we were talking life-and-death matters here: how could a petty legal point compare at all?

Actually, I don't see any law broken here because Israel never signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, but even if you found some law against going nuclear, it would be just be a technical misdemeanor compared to the USA that actually used such weapons twice against Japan, of which the second tine was deemed by most historians to be unnecessary.

You mentioned the "unchanging situation in the Middle East":
doesn't this situation include the fact that Arabs occupy some 98% of it?
shouldn't they be happy about it then?
Doesn't this unchanging situation also include the fact that a significant portion of the Arabs have actively vowed to do whatsoever to eliminate the Jewish state, not only from the remaining (let's be generous) 2%, but not accepting its existence on even one square centimeter within the Middle East? This is not a result of nuclear weapons - it has been like this since Israel's inception in 1948.

In summary, the "unchanging situation" is that Israel still exists. I can see that it upsets you.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 22 July 2008 2:53:23 AM
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