The olympic organiser's have a lot to answer for. Behind closed doors they organised the flame relay, agreeing to conditions for China to use the olympic torch as a political statement. China's embassy in Australia
perhaps reacted to events in other parts of the world. Perhaps the olympics is now an anachronism.
Cheating, proffessionalism, drugs and politics in addition to nationalism has made holding them and participating too complex, leaving out the economics of it all.
The economics have made seeking the "games" a political nightmare
Keep them in Greece I believe is the way to go. We have television remember.
fluff4

The Australian Government allowed the Chinese Embassy and Chinese students to intimidate others on Australian soil. The Chinese thugs could have been stopped easily if the Government, particularly the plastic PM, had the guts to do it.

Just what would happen if foreigners instigated the same sort of ruckus in China?

Any students (i.e. non-Australians) should be dealt with harshly and deported if they choose to take political action while they are guests of this country. The fact that these particular pigs were not punished should make it clear to all of us what a lick-spittle Kevin Rudd really is when it comes to China. The weak little twerp should be tracking down, and expelling, the 1,000 or so Chinese spies we are told are in Australia, too. But he couldn’t even honour the guarantee that Chinese nationals would not be allowed anywhere near the torch bearers. It was up to AFP officers to shove them out of the way.

I am disgusted that the previous government painted us into a corner where just about every manufactured good we buy comes from China – at great cost of Australian workers. Now, the current Government looks as if it is really going to kow-tow to the most dangerous and unpleasant country/government on the planet

The short occupation of Canberras Federal Triangle to me shows that the chinese already feel they own us as NEW SOUTH CHINA.
This I felt at the time of wondering what those 10,000 chinese protesters were doing there.
What are you doing there...this is OUR land!
They have over 1,000 spies here according to Chen Yonglin, God bless you might son of Australia for your words exposing all of this.
Kevin Rudd is following a line that is old and very communist.
It denies the Holy Bible and Christianity and goes for a dance with demon worshippping communist nations.
I say build our defences and distance ourselves from China.
You know...theres hardly a gun in the land following the great disarmament after Port Arthur.
We would be better if the USA took us over than alllow that situation to continue.

An interesting article, which helps answer a question many of us were asking at the time of the torch relay - where did this pro-Chinese government troop of Chinese suddenly materialise from, and how did they so effectively muzzle the protest? Most Chinese students and visitors I encounter - and I teach ESOL so I meet quite a few - are not particularly pro-Chinese govt. It highlights the insidious nature of that government. I would hope that something could be done to rid us of these Chinese agents. Also I would hope that the Olympic Committee be investigated as to their role in smoothing the path for China re these games. Kevin Gosper's remarks on the whole affair are particularly appalling.

Someone needs to inform those Chinese students (the new Red Guards) that the Chinese Communist Party is not China. China has a 5000 year history of Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism... an extremely rich cultural heritage... The CCP tried to completely wipe all traces of this grand heritage during the Cultural Revolution. China was kidnapped by European Communism a little over 50 years ago. The CCP has terrorized its population into bonding with its abuser... so many think that the CCP is China. The CCP is responsible for the death of more of its own citizens than the number who were killed in both WWI and WWII. The actions of the students in Canberra demonstrate how they have been used and abused to support a brutal dictatorship responsible for the oppression of many of their parents and/or grandparents... Many Chinese who hold different views from these students, such as human rights lawyers, journalists and environmentalists languish in gulags for daring to stand up for the truth. I hope these students wake up soon and realize that this brutal dictatorship is not their mother.

Communists commits genocide upon others, and mostly to date its own countrymen.

Chinese Communism seems to be torturing and killing some group of people every decade.

1949 - Chinese Communism came to power in China. During World War II, they hung around villages, recruited members & ate for free. The communist only fought 2 battles; the rest of the fights were left to the Kuomintang. As a result, the number of Kuomintang soldiers decreased. When World War II ended, the communist came out in droves & chased the Kuomintang away.

1950s - The persecution of Tibetans began.

1966 - Cultural Revolution. All the good traditions and believes of ancient China were destroyed and trampled upon.

1989 - Tiananmen Massacre. Students were shot and rolled over by tanks for protesting. The communist regime have still not been accountable for this massacre and today deny to its youth that it ever happened.

1999 - Persecution of Falun Gong. Soon after, the communists began to make money from harvesting organs of Falun Gong disciples who would not give up their faith in Truth compassion and Forbearance.

2008 – Attack Tibetan Monks and civilians and impose an international media black out so the world could not see another Tiananmen Square massacre.

I remembered the old "seem to be strong" communist Russia crumbled overnight, and it all began with the people losing faith in communism. That is exactly what is happening in China today.

Communist China is imploding.

1 more fact - 60 years of communism in China killed a minimum of 80 million Chinese people...and that's in China alone. The rest of the figures of unnatural deaths under communist rule (ex & current communist-controlled countries) can all be found in the "Black Book of Communism".

80 million, that's more than the total death rates of World War 1 & 2.

Read the 9 commentaries at
http://ninecommentaries.com/
Nearly 37 million have quit the Ccp and all its affiliated organizations. Some say that China has changed but I don’t think so please read recent words from Ccp.

Chi Haotian, Chinese Military Analyst's Deadly Words
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-8-5/30931.html

There are 600,000 Chinese in Australia and the Chinese students put $10 billion into university coffers every year.

They came to Canberra simply because that is where the torch relay was. There is nothing even remotely sinister about that, no point trying to go to the relay in Sydney or Brisbane was there?

And for pete's sake stop romanticising Tibet and pretending it was a wonderful society before the Chinese takeover, it has always been part of China that Britain invaded over and over again in the late 1980's and early 1900's, slaughtering on the way.

Since 1959 when China stopped the slave society we have invaded Vietnam and 3 million died and many more are still dying. WE were party to or at least sat around while Pol Pot slaughtered 3 million more.

WE have invaded Iraq twice, led sanctions which killed over 1.3 million civilians and been party to the murder of another 3 million. WE boycotted Russia in 1980 for invading Afghanistan and we have now occupied Afghanistan for one Olympics and this will be the second.

The longest a child spent in our concentration camps was 5 years, 5 months and 20 days and he was Chinese.

We sent home Chinese women when they were having their second babies, at least one was forcibly aborted at 38 weeks and Vanstone simply said it was an excellent deportation.

Will the hypocrites, whiners and ranters just please remember that the Chinese in Australia have the exact same right to free speech as those we like more.

All this 'symbolism' over competitive exercising.

A panel on climate change has no agenda?

Skepticism is integral to the scientific process.

As for being skeptical about skeptics. Whats that about?

Marilyn are you aware that at least some of those students were required to attend the rally in Canberra? How do I know because the Chinese student I am giving personal tuition in English to had to miss his regular time. He was told by an embassy official that he was required to attend. Those busloads were organised. The demonstration was organised and Australian democracy was (ab)used as political tool.
If those same students had tried to demonstrate in the middle of Beijing (remember Tianmen Sq?) they would have been hauled away.
Your pro-refugee views are well known (and I admire your courage if not your convictions) but please be sure of your facts.

Jane,

I'd say the vast majority of Chinese National students in Australia are the obedient and compliant sons and daughters of CCP members.

As a fact of history it was Stalin's Communist forces who eventually kicked the Japs out of Northern and Eastern China. When they left they granted all the captured Japanese arms, ammunition and equipment to the Chinese communists. It was that that lead to the communist domination. Had that not occurred the struggle would have continued for decades ... Taiwan is proof. CCP hate to admit those facts and that impotence mostly accounts for their opngoing desire to 'unite' the free Taiwanese into dictatorial China.

Am I biased? Yes of course I hate injustice and detest the communal organisation of political life.
Is Kevin biased? Yes of course. He has sympathy with those aspects of Chinese communism and wants them ... for everyone else but himself and his family.

We will burn all our coal and then we will burn yours; Chinese Premier.

We should be very wary of allowing China to buy into our resource
companies.
There is at least one attempt to buy 100% of an iron ore miner.
If they were successful they could pay a per ton price that left no profit.

This is known as transfer pricing and the government has never been
successful in stopping this practice.
There is also the problem in the future that we may want to direct
what may become scarce resources to other than China.

They have already invested in a number of oil & gas companies and I
believe coal mines. We could end up losing control of our own
resources.

With the advent of peak oil, gas & coal China has been tying up by purchase
or long term contracts most of the worlds available supply that they
could access, hence the raid on Rio Tinto.

Marilyn

Your capitalist concerns are noted "the Chinese students put $10 billion into university coffers every year."

But the article is largely about the apparent trading of free speech and Australian independence for mainland Chinese money.

Now Mr Rudd is very rich and is aware China may enrich some of us further. His financial and cultural Sinophilia might be heartfelt and might be farseeing but sometimes I wonder.

The MSS are not kind and the CCP have a hard edged record. If we were mainland Chinese the MSS would have put most of us outspoken people against a wall years ago - those who had escaped the tank treads of Tiananmen that is.

Some people are pretty relaxed about fellow Australians who might also be Tibetan or Falun Gong being shouted down, pushed and prodded by screaming temporary students directed by cadres. Yes some of them were volunteers.

Yes there are many bad things the West is doing in the world but we are talking about what is going on in our country - about freedom of speech of those less fortunate - people who are less rich than Mr Rudd or Chinese Communist Party businessmen.

Other than that I think your heart is in the right place.

Regards

Peter Coates
http://spyingbadthings.blogspot.com/

My grandfather fought communism in the 1950's and australian now is trading with China.Since Australian and other countrys has beening trading the boom of the 1950's has stopped and the looms covered in dust in Australia and the Australian looms should start again.In the 1950's J F Kennedy sent 386 special forces to teach south vietnamese to fight communism which back fired .America ,Australia and other nations have fought so hard against communism for freedom but now it seems that australia and other country are paying communist's to work and fuelling the money for the atomic bomb.Remember there's a difference between the olympic games and personal freedom of the individual as well .I am against the murdering of little girls in China and communism.All i am saying is keep personal freedom as communism has no individual voice. David

I am so glad you are so concerned about people advocating for Falun Gong not being shouted down.

How about the millions of us who screamed loud and long not to lock up children in concentration camps for years on end and were ignored.

Get a grip for god's sake.

The Chinese have the exact same rights to speak as those supporting Tibet while they are here.

No good trying to say those who support Tibet can scream, sit down in front of flames, attack crippled athletes in France and so on without the Chinese screaming back.

That dear is democracy.

And I am not the capitalist, just the realist about what is propping up all our underfunded universities. Plus there is no use blaming the children for their parents or their government.

I think it is a matter of some concern when the students are here to gain an education and are guests of this country. But of more concern is the extent to which China has taken over world manufacturing. Try to buy anything from electronics to clothing to Christmas cards that are not made in China.

Chairman Mao said that China WOULD take over the world, and eliminate other races apart from Caucasian male workers. And in terms of human rights and worse still, animal cruelty, their poor record is second to none (not that Australis is that great about animal cruelty either).

Nicky

Rudd is playing the political game. Do you all forget how much woop ass we will cop if we dont remain nutural within the worlds community.
We cant afford to be bold or afford to be anything else. It's size verses size and all we can do is to be affordable to the fact of humbleness. We cant play the big game. I guess that's what makes us very special, and why the world just loves us.

Think about it.

Marilyn Sheppard,"I am not a capitalist,just a realist,about what is proping up our underfunded universities."So according to Marilyn moral relativism is OK if Marilyn's livelyhood and lifestyle is threatened.The Tibetans can burn in hell so long as the the money flows from China.

I didn't think that the high principled left could be bought off so easily.

Marilyn,are you no different from the multi-nationals whom you profess to abhorr?

Marilyn S, are you barking mad? " that dear is democracy". Denied in mainland China at the risk of imprisonment,death, organ removal and re-education.

Get a grip? you've lost all grip on reality baby.

Never mind the Stockholm Syndrome, welcome to the Shepherd Syndrome; supporter of wimmens rights under the Taliban,the gassing of Kurds by Saddam and now the democratic rights of the Chinese people.

Barking mad.

Palimpsest,the scary thing is that she probably lectures at one of our universities.Obiviously not a faculty based on logic.Dare we suggest the humanities?

Just having a bit of fun. lighten up. lol

Arjay and Palimpsest,

Regarding Ms. Shepherd losing her grip on reality or being barking mad? I see nothing to either prompt or sustain such comments.

Her rationale was fair: what relevance do the practices of other countries have here? In Australia the right to congregate and express peaceful protest is allowed.

As pointed out but addressed by neither of you: the Tibetans and Chinese Falun Gong are accorded those rights in Australia. If either of you advocate allowing those of whom you approve the right to express their views and restricting those of whom you do not approve from expressing their views the spirit of democracy is lost. What difference does such an attitude have from the ones which you abhor so vehemently?

As to the assumption that the students here in Australia are the offspring of members of the CCP? I would be interested to know what prompts you towards such an unsubstantiated conclusion? Even supposing for one moment this were true - what does this have to do with these students? Does the average child vow allegiance to their parent's politics?

Or are you still stuck in some historical backwater wherein you assume that every Chinese person is a member of the CCP. Just as some uneducated Asians assume that every Western person is a fundamentalist Christian?

re Romany and Marilyn,

PLease be better informed -Falun Gong have never protested the Olympic Torch or the Olympics being held in China so please refrain from talking about Falun Gong and lumping them in with other protesters. Other wise you are spreading the Ccp's propoganda for them; unless thats what you are intending to do because you support the Ccp's inhuman persecution of Falun Gong in China.. And i sincerely hope that dont support this Genocide of Falun Gong.

Human Rights - what a dilemma they pose when you're trying to do business with a tyrant. In the stampede for profits, it's worth asking: is the promotion of human rights being trampled underfoot?

The ker-ching! of the tills was also audible around the time Beijing controversially won the right to host the 2008 Olympic Games. With Australia backing the Beijing bid, a win for China was going to be -
gold! gold! gold! for Australian companies seeking to profit.

Within days of Beijing's win, Australian companies jumped on the Olympic bandwagon, with lucrative opportunites up for grabs in planning, events management and sport development. There were predictions that Australian business could earn as much as $1 billion.
And Telstra sponsored the Beijing bid, pouring in millions of dollars.
Notably, these companies were mute on human rights.

China executes more people than the rest of the world combined. According to Amnesty International, as many as 10,000 people are killed by the state each year. Freedom of expression is severely curtailed, torture is rampant and systematic, and executions are carried out after unfair trials. Thousands of Falun Gong supporters are locked up for practising a banned religion and Tibetans in Chinese custody are tortured and beaten.

Despite reassurances to the International Community that China would improve its human rights record in the lead-up to the Games, abuses continue unabated.

It is against this backdrop that the newly elected Australian Government seeks to do business with China. Australia has a growing friendship with China. Presumably, it's like being friends with a neighbour you know beats his wife every night.

Come the Olympic Games, with journalists crawling everywhere, how will China manage intense media scrutiny? How will it deal with pro-Tibetan demonstrators if they risk all by protesting against the Games? And if China doesn't respond in the way the world expects it to, how will friends like Australia deal with it?

It has been argued that in its relationship with China, the Australian Government is trying to keep economics and politics separate. Will it succeed is the question?

Frankly, Australia, as a medium power, has no much space in international affairs.

Recent torch relay drama is an interesting international struggle. All the anti-China (don't cover with human rights etc) organizations are supported by west governments, including financial support. It is not difficult to find some 9 to 5 "professional" anti-China protestor in west countries.

BTW, dont regard some west countries as the whole world.

Pro and anti China drama reflects international and subtle internal politics, and actually provides a bit more space for Australian diplomatic policies.

Jana Banana

I’m assuming Falun Gong (or Falun Dafa) is being careful in its approach to the Olympics. That is Falun's desire for religious freedom (or democracy?) does not mean Falun is unpatriotic in China. In that regard (as you say) Falun doesn’t oppose the Olympics.

A problem for the Falun Gong is that the Olympics may have triggered such an outpouring of genuine Chinese nationalism or patriotism that this feeling may supplant some Falun religious feeling.

The CCP needs only to fine tune this nationalist sentiment where the CCP thinks necessary.

Two interesting links are:

Ministry of Public Security's Olympics Scrutiny Notice Reveals CCP's Desperation, Violation of Human Rights, and Opposition to the Olympic Spirit http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2007/5/25/86066.html

- if authentic this may be Chinese security’s Olympic “Vision Statement”: among other things it excludes Falun Gong.

More recently April 30, 2008 from a Falun website comes http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2008/5/1/96933.html :

“Falun Gong Arrests and Deaths in Custody Escalate as Olympics Approach”

Regards

Pete

Im with you Nicky.
China has an unpleasant government, dare I say evil.
Its history shows it has little respect for human life and they would indeed eat us up, if they ever got here.
Locked in the backrooms of the PLA are plans for the invasion of Australia.
This christians know already because of the number of visions and prophecies from The Lord about an asian invader taking over part of the land.
Too many people on OLO (and in Labor) already want to sleep with the Chinese government. I wonder why.
Is China paying you too, to spy out the land?
Have some courage folk...when you see evil government...stand against it.

So let's tke Marilyns' and Romany's logic a step further.We should not blame the Chinese Students who come here for the injustices of their Govt.We should not be too critical since we need the money for our universities.The students must obiviously innocent,and therefore we should accept them and their money at face value.

500 Tibetan protestors turned up for the Olympic torch run,at the command of the Chinese Govt 5000 Chinese nationals living in Australia[mostly students] turned up to support Chinese nationalism.Kevin Rudd said that no Chinese security would be allowed to protect the torch.Kevin had to back down from that statement and allow Chinese security to escort the torch.

Who has the real power?China knows it and they have yet to flex their muscles.

Arjay,

No, I did not say "We should not be too critical since we need the money for our universities." I believe rather that we should not shoot off our mouths when we have an imperfect understanding of matters. However, if you care to reduce it to purely economic incentives then "We should not be too critical because...all the large multi-national companies on whom we depend for our lifestyle operate out of China".

Walk round your house, look at the labels in the clothes you are wearing, jump in your car, pop into FKC, and try to compute how much any of these would cost you if you were not perfectly happy to accept the status quo when it comes to your day to day life. If you seriously want to critique the regime then strip yourself of everything in your life that was made in China.

Alternatively, acquaint yourself with a broader knowledge range and become aware of the pro as well as the con. And don't make ominous sounding but purely empty statements about China "flexing her muscles"

re Romany,
At the end of the day as along a totalitarian brutal regime murders innocent people for practising mediation, Truth Compassion and Forbearance while stealing their organs and selling them then that regime has no business being accepted into the international community .

Any Chinese or westerner who turns a blind eye to these atrocities in the name of trade or making money deserves to be called inhumane. So please don’t make out the China has a few problems. This is new form of evil never seen on the planet before . And the evil Ccp still deny it. Its black and white issue which side do you stand on? The side of goodness or the side of evil..

Romany, our Marilyn is on record as being an advocate of womens rights under the Taliban etc as if they were somehow superior to our society. etc

Her first post here said 'since 1959 when China stopped the slave society we have......'. How convenient to forget the Cultural Rev. the Great Leap Forward, Tienanmen, the Falun Gong, Chinese money propping up repugnant African dictatorships etc

After all what's 30 million Chinese lives worth? What is democracy worth? Womens rights? Less it seems than Marilyns loathing for our society.

It was WIDELY reported that the pro CCP demonstaters used their numbers to physically intimidate anti demostraters, including, in one report I read, a group of Amnesty Int. supporters who had to be rescued by the police.

Go figure.

Balanced information on other media:

thousands of pro China protestors are Australian citizen, some booked buses by pro China side were cancelled short time before torch relay by bus company due to political pressure...

some anti China prostors were hired by $300 per day...

a pro China protestor was coma after attack by anti China protestors...

police were tougher to pro China protestors than to anti China protestors...

overall, protestors were restrained from both sides, it was a successful torch relay.

Only a pro - China protester or blind nationalist could call the Olympic torch relay a success.

Most of us are shocked at the extensive abuse of human rights over a very long time throughout all of China, not just in Tibet.

Having the Olympic torch relay being used as a symbol for all that's good in China is a totally obvious charade and a downright bloody disgrace.

Is it only me, or does Centra read as if s/he is a fully paid up stooge of the regime?

Its only you.

See how quick Romany was to jump to her defence. Hes one too,

The only way for them to disprove our allegations would for them to admit the persecution of the hidden Genocide of Falun Gong is wrong and against all of humanity and that the Ccp has and will continue to shame the Chinese nation thru this and other horrendous persecutions inside China.

If they admit to that then I will say sorry for pointing the finger at them..If not then i rest my case..

The most interesting thing is that someone looks like an savior, but is so ignorant .

I really don't want to be harsh to Falun Gong. I believe some of Falun Gong members are genuine meditation practicers and unfortunately, some of them became the victims of nasty politics.

But I was shocked by the news such as harvesting organs of Falun Gong disciples in ABC and BBC about one year ago. I was surprised that someone did trust this kind of absurd news. Exaggeration, distortion and diatribe are beyond my imagination.

Let me tell you a true story, which was broadcast in a TaiWan TV about ten years ago. In a lecture, Falun Gong's primary school educated founder pointed to a cup of water and told his audience that he was the ONLY man in the world who can get the GOLD MOLECULE from his drink water.

Hmnn Im not even going to bother answering your comment directly Centra.

You may not have a religious bone in you body Centra and thats fine. But please do not condemn what you do not understand instead condemn what you know is wrong. And that is this Genocide of Falun Gong in China is wrong!!

You read about Chinese spies in Australia here on OLO.

Well now "The Australian" is supporting this fact:

see "CHINESE SPYING ON AUSTRALIA" in The Australian, May 31, 2008

"THE worst-kept secret in Australian intelligence - that China operates spies out of its Canberra embassy - has been officially admitted in the top-secret records of the Hope royal commission.

The admission comes despite the longstanding denial by China that it runs spies under diplomatic cover in Australia.

Yesterday, a spokesman at the Chinese embassy told The Weekend Australian: "There have never been intelligence officers at our embassy."

But the Hope report, released publicly this week under the 30-year rule, reveals that Chinese espionage against Australia goes back at least three decades.

It says that, despite the dysfunctional and ineffective nature of ASIO at the time, the domestic spy agency had detected an increase in spies from both the Soviet Union and China between 1970 and 1975.

"Over (that) period, Soviet and other Soviet Bloc identified and suspected intelligence officers posted to diplomatic missions in Australia rose from (number blacked out), not to mention the intelligence officer component at the Chinese (PRC) embassy believed to be about (number blacked out) intelligence officers," the report said.

...It is believed to be the first official Australian admission of China's espionage activities in Australia. However, security officials have been giving off-the-record warnings for years about China's increasingly robust espionage presence in Australia.

In June 2005, The Australian revealed that ASIO had set up a new counter-espionage unit, largely to combat the rise in the number of Chinese spies.

Security sources admit the number of Chinese agents in Australia is greater than the ranks of Russian spies who dominated Canberra during the Cold War.

They say Chinese spies perform three roles in Australia: acquiring sensitive technology for military and strategic advantage; stealing technology and information for commercial gain; and monitoring and infiltrating groups that Beijing tries to suppress, such as Falun Gong."