TurnRightThenLeft, thanks for your comments.

It is very destructive to have a partner who hits and not be able to get support to have it stopped. Been there, done that and it was a nightmare. It seems like there is no where to turn. There are some resources available but they are generally promoted as being support for female victims of DV even if they do provide support for men.

Joe, the rates for indiginous family violence do appear horrible. Some of the material I referenced for Tina includes discussion of the extremely increased rates of substantiated child abuse and violent deaths faced by indiginous children. The discussion from this thread is not specifically about indiginous issues, it's about the genderised way DV is portrayed across the whole community and the utter lack of support for male victims of DV. It's about the way DV is portrayed to cover a very wide range of activities (from asking unwanted questions and up) and treated as a male issue but when pushed it always seem to come back to what is a very small proportion of DV, that section involving serious injury or death.

I've pointed out elsewhere that some of the research shows that women who hit men are at far higher risk of serious injury than those who don't regardless of who initiates the violence. Isn't that sufficient reason to include women in the message not to hit? Isn't that reason to give men some support if they have a violent spouse even if you don't care about the male victims?

You seem to have issues which go way past anything I've written or referenced. Perhaps rather than wondering what planet I'm on you could spend some time considering why you react the way you do to the idea of trying to stop all family violence rather than just male initiated family violence.

R0bert

Tina,

best of luck with your course, if you are young then hopefully you will see some much needed changes to the way DV is seen and managed.

here are some more links

http://www.franks.org/fr01060.htm
"Women emerge as aggressors in Alberta survey 67% of women questioned say they started severe conflicts"

<Although the original researchers asked women the same questions as men, their answers were never published until now.

When the original Alberta study was published in the Canadian Journal of Behavioural Science in 1989, it was taken up by feminist groups as evidence of the epidemic of violence against women.>

'Disabusing the definition of domestic abuse: how women batter men and the role of the feminist state', (link to site) Linda Kelly from the Florida State University Law Review, Vol 30:791.
http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/dom/kelly03.pdf

'Domestic violence and the male victim', Ann Lewis & Dr Sotirios Sarantakos, Nuance, 3, December 2001, pp 1-15.

'Domestic Violence Policies: Where Did We Go Wrong?, Dr Sotirios Sarantakos, Nuance, 3, December 2001, pp 45-69.
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/13076/20021019/www.nuancejournal.com.au/documents/three/saran2.pdf

I often ask myself what would a hidden camera see in the cases of DV?

Loudmouth Joe,

There is a strong causative link between alcohol abuse and violence, alcohol abuse in indigenous communities is a huge problem, having lived and worked in the territory I have witnessed violence being perpetrated by both genders when they are intoxicated.

R0bert: "I did find an encouraging comment which I think was by him in an article at http://www.europrofem.org/contri/2_04_en/en-viol/08en_vio.htm where he says"

It's a very old quote. Flood has discovered that his talents, such as they are, get him further if he espouses the prevailing dogma, so that's what he reproduces. Not much original has ever crossed his mind from what I've seen of his output.

thanks JamesH. appreciate it. :)

Tina, well done addressing this issue for both women and men.

RObert, I agree with you that it is VERY difficult, if not impossible, for men to get assistance when a man is the victim of violence. It is especially horrible when there are children involved.

I've helped a couple of men who had to deal with this. In both cases the women had actually lodged DVO's against the men, but nevertheless pursued the men to their other address to 'discuss issues'. I advised to contact the police immediately to report this while the woman was there. It wasn't done. Too embarrassing. In both cases the men felt helpless.

That's why I remain strongly convinced that when the threat of violence occurs and a DVO is lodged, regardless of who lodges the order, a whole train should be set into motion. It is only this way that greater violence is more likely prevented and both parties are assisted.

It makes no sense to me whatsoever that DV can occur in a relationship, a DVO is lodged and there are no consequences that could resolve this. Compulsory regular follow-up over a period of time is required. The cost of DV warrants this.

This issue is so weighted in favour of women, because though the men I knew were indeed victims of physical violence, neither could claim that they were in fear of their lives. And that's at the nub of the present DV debate.

Personally, I feel that DV should no longer be so limited. As I've posted previously, violence in the home should also be extended towards children. If it not alright to smack the wife or husband around, than similarly it's not alright to hit the kids.

Violence is about exerting power over another and intimidating another to behave in a particular way desired by the perpetrator. It is never alright.

yvonne, I'm in agreement with all of that last post except some reservations around "neither could claim that they were in fear of their lives. And that's at the nub of the present DV debate."

The definitions and examples used in the various campaigns (and in the use of DVO's etc) go well beyond fear of lives. I've got a copy of the government brochure somewhere but can't lay my hands on it at the moment but it included things like intrusive questioning. The stats which get quoted for the frequency of DV include a wide range of non-life threatening behaviours.

I doubt that the vast bulk of DV incidents could reasonably cause genuine fear for someones life. For most the bigger issues are about the lack of control over our own lives.

The emotional issues for men and women with a violent spouse may be different but both can be significant. For a man he faces the possibility that he will be blamed for the violence regardless of his own actions. A man faces the risk that if he leaves he will loose acess to kids, property and income based on his gender rather than his actions or parenting skills. Men face the struggle associated with having no way of stopping the violence (other than perhaps giving in to whatever demands are made). He can't hit back, authorities often won't help and far to many people dismiss the violence against him as unimportant.

Women come out far worse at the far end of the scale of violence but men suicide far more often - is emotional violence a factor in that?

Tina,
I just came across another resource site (I've referenced material from the site but not seen the resource info) http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/info_dom.htm

R0bert